4 ms·

Petrol is also insanely dangerous, yet we seem to manage.

by GJim 2y ago

bluGill 2y ago
Petro is practically safe compared to ammonia. Petro only explodes in specific air-fuel situations. The vapors are harmful, but not deadly in small quantities like ammonia is. Calling petro "insanely dangerous" is wrong. Petro is the most dangerous substance normal people handle in quantity, but we allow normal people to handle it in quantity because it while it isn't safe it isn't all that dangerous. Your standard household ammonia CONCENTRATE people sometimes use for cleaning is 99% water - you dilute it significantly for use. Even used correctly it is nasty stuff.
- unwind 2y ago
  Petro (sic) only explodes in specific air-fuel situations That seems to be true for ammonia as well, at least according to the Wikipedia page's [1] section on Combustion: Ammonia does not burn readily or sustain combustion, except under narrow fuel-to-air mixtures of 15–28% ammonia by volume in air. That doesn't sound too horrible, it feels like gasoline/petrol is easier to combust (although I know it's the fumes that are actually flammable). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#Combustion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#Combustion
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Maybe I wasn't clear. Ammonia is burning is not the worry. Ammonia in small quantities will kill you directly. no fire needed, it will kill you.
    - LeifCarrotson 2y ago
      To be clear, "small quantities" are in units of parts per million. 5ppm (0.0005%) and the room smells of ammonia, 25ppm means you should be wearing a respirator, 500 ppm (0.05%) can be lethal. Warning that 15% air-ammonia mixtures can burn is like warning that 100 kg of TNT could give you a concussion if it fell on your head. It's just not the concern at all.
      - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
        This risk factor sounds less like a normal chemical substance and more on the level of uranium
        adrianN 2y ago
        It’s comparable to carbon monoxide, except you can’t smell that one.
rdtsc 2y ago
Like the sibling comment mentioned it is nothing compared to ammonia. Yeah if you dump it somewhere in the ocean it might decompose with less damage to the environment but I was talking about immediate damage to humans.
potato3732842 2y ago
Ships don't run on petrol, they run on various grades of bunker oil which is basically just really thin lubricating oil.
- GJim 2y ago
  My god you are thick. The point was that risks can be managed.
  - rishav_sharan 2y ago
    And you are being rather rude. You can make the same point without resorting to name calling
- 0_____0 2y ago
  You're thinking of something like regular fuel oil, like diesel or kerosene. Heavy fuel oil/bunker is very viscous, has to be heated to be pumped efficiently.
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    >You're thinking of something like regular fuel oil, like diesel or kerosene. Heavy fuel oil/bunker is very viscous, has to be heated to be pumped efficiently. I assure you I am not. I specifically compared it to lubricants to avoid a bunch of people mentally anchoring the discussion around diesel. Bunker C (the common one, also the most thick one) is basically on the automotive oil spectrum when it comes to viscosity. Go to 0:00 for room temp and 9:00 for operating temp (which is low enough for a plastic soda bottle and a bare hand to be appropriate). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZZ591x0Ajs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZZ591x0Ajs. Sure looks like 5w20 to me. Def thinner than gear oils and any comparison to 000 grease or roofing tar on a hot day is laughable. Bunker fuel is solidly on the oil spectrum.
    - aziaziazi 2y ago
      > very viscous > I assure you I’m not > bunker fuel is solidity You seems to be knowledgeable in that domain and has something interesting to share but I don’t understand your point. What is the scale 0.00-9.00 ? What is the preside point you don’t agree with GP? Please EMLI5.
dredmorbius 2y ago
Petrol (gasoline to Americans) is dangerous largely for is vapours. It's one of the lightest-possible liquid fuels with about 6 carbon atoms per molecule (C6).[1] Most ships don't burn petrol itself,[2] but rather heavier fractions of petroleum, generally either diesel (~C16) or bunker fuel (~30 or longer), which don't vapourise readily. It's possible to extinguish a lit match in diesel fuel (the vapours above petrol would ignite and/or explode), and bunker fuel generally won't even flow until it's been heated above the boiling point of water (spent steam from steamships is used to heat the incoming fuel both so that it will flow and to vapourise it before injection into boilers or diesel cylinders). The comparatively small quantities of petrol carried in automobiles is not a grave hazard, though fuel tanks are protected against damage or ignition, and fires do happen. Larger vehicles, on land, sea, and air, often burn the comparatively safer kerosene (aviation) or diesel (heavy machinery). ________________________________ Notes: 1. "Distillate" and "NGL" (natural gas liquids) are used in some instances, and can boil well below 100°C. Butane boils at -0.5°C / 31.5°F. 2. As I'd just mentioned in an earlier comment. I thought a well-known cruise ship or ocean-liner had been converted to petrol, but can't find a reference. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43344605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43344605>
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Petrol is also insanely dangerous, yet we seem to manage.

by GJim 2y ago

Petrol is also insanely dangerous, yet we seem to manage.

Petro is practically safe compared to ammonia. Petro only explodes in specific air-fuel situations. The vapors are harmful, but not deadly in small quantities like ammonia is. Calling petro "insanely dangerous" is wrong. Petro is the most dangerous substance normal people handle in quantity, but we allow normal people to handle it in quantity because it while it isn't safe it isn't all that dangerous. Your standard household ammonia CONCENTRATE people sometimes use for cleaning is 99% water - you dilute it significantly for use. Even used correctly it is nasty stuff.

unwind 2y ago
Petro (sic) only explodes in specific air-fuel situations That seems to be true for ammonia as well, at least according to the Wikipedia page's [1] section on Combustion: Ammonia does not burn readily or sustain combustion, except under narrow fuel-to-air mixtures of 15–28% ammonia by volume in air. That doesn't sound too horrible, it feels like gasoline/petrol is easier to combust (although I know it's the fumes that are actually flammable). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#Combustion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#Combustion
- bluGill 2y ago
  Maybe I wasn't clear. Ammonia is burning is not the worry. Ammonia in small quantities will kill you directly. no fire needed, it will kill you.
  - LeifCarrotson 2y ago
    To be clear, "small quantities" are in units of parts per million. 5ppm (0.0005%) and the room smells of ammonia, 25ppm means you should be wearing a respirator, 500 ppm (0.05%) can be lethal. Warning that 15% air-ammonia mixtures can burn is like warning that 100 kg of TNT could give you a concussion if it fell on your head. It's just not the concern at all.
    - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
      This risk factor sounds less like a normal chemical substance and more on the level of uranium
      - adrianN 2y ago
        It’s comparable to carbon monoxide, except you can’t smell that one.

rdtsc 2y ago

Like the sibling comment mentioned it is nothing compared to ammonia. Yeah if you dump it somewhere in the ocean it might decompose with less damage to the environment but I was talking about immediate damage to humans.

potato3732842 2y ago

Ships don't run on petrol, they run on various grades of bunker oil which is basically just really thin lubricating oil.

GJim 2y ago
My god you are thick. The point was that risks can be managed.
- rishav_sharan 2y ago
  And you are being rather rude. You can make the same point without resorting to name calling
0_____0 2y ago
You're thinking of something like regular fuel oil, like diesel or kerosene. Heavy fuel oil/bunker is very viscous, has to be heated to be pumped efficiently.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  >You're thinking of something like regular fuel oil, like diesel or kerosene. Heavy fuel oil/bunker is very viscous, has to be heated to be pumped efficiently. I assure you I am not. I specifically compared it to lubricants to avoid a bunch of people mentally anchoring the discussion around diesel. Bunker C (the common one, also the most thick one) is basically on the automotive oil spectrum when it comes to viscosity. Go to 0:00 for room temp and 9:00 for operating temp (which is low enough for a plastic soda bottle and a bare hand to be appropriate). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZZ591x0Ajs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZZ591x0Ajs. Sure looks like 5w20 to me. Def thinner than gear oils and any comparison to 000 grease or roofing tar on a hot day is laughable. Bunker fuel is solidly on the oil spectrum.
  - aziaziazi 2y ago
    > very viscous > I assure you I’m not > bunker fuel is solidity You seems to be knowledgeable in that domain and has something interesting to share but I don’t understand your point. What is the scale 0.00-9.00 ? What is the preside point you don’t agree with GP? Please EMLI5.

dredmorbius 2y ago

Petrol (gasoline to Americans) is dangerous largely for is vapours. It's one of the lightest-possible liquid fuels with about 6 carbon atoms per molecule (C6).[1] Most ships don't burn petrol itself,[2] but rather heavier fractions of petroleum, generally either diesel (~C16) or bunker fuel (~30 or longer), which don't vapourise readily. It's possible to extinguish a lit match in diesel fuel (the vapours above petrol would ignite and/or explode), and bunker fuel generally won't even flow until it's been heated above the boiling point of water (spent steam from steamships is used to heat the incoming fuel both so that it will flow and to vapourise it before injection into boilers or diesel cylinders). The comparatively small quantities of petrol carried in automobiles is not a grave hazard, though fuel tanks are protected against damage or ignition, and fires do happen. Larger vehicles, on land, sea, and air, often burn the comparatively safer kerosene (aviation) or diesel (heavy machinery). ________________________________ Notes: 1. "Distillate" and "NGL" (natural gas liquids) are used in some instances, and can boil well below 100°C. Butane boils at -0.5°C / 31.5°F. 2. As I'd just mentioned in an earlier comment. I thought a well-known cruise ship or ocean-liner had been converted to petrol, but can't find a reference. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43344605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43344605>

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]