5 ms·

In this landscape I'm curious if any amount of money can overcome the oligopoly advantages of owning the OS (with no anti-trust enforcement) or owning the most

In this landscape I'm curious if any amount of money can overcome the oligopoly advantages of owning the OS (with no anti-trust enforcement) or owning the most popular web properties. Even if every cent for the past ten years went to browser dev alone, would that have made a difference? Do regular users even know the difference between one browser and another? Or is it only the icon they recognize, if even that?

n_ary 2y ago
> Do regular users even know the difference […] Honestly, from observing my close family and friends as well as passing by strangers, everyone uses whatever default comes(i.e. Chrome on Android) or again Chrome(on iOS because they saw some banner ad somewhere to install it to access their password stored previously in android life). The core portal to internet currently appears to be the blue-F(aka Facebook) icon which has an interesting search. People search in Facebook for specific topic and then will reluctantly move over to browser and again search on Google(always default). So, in summary no, everyone uses Chrome and does not know the difference. Some of my colleagues seem to use Brave and Linux die-hards use Firefox(comes default with ubuntu last I tried ubuntu).
onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
You're spending money in the wrong place - spend it on marketing instead of dev, and you've got a shot.
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  People aren't motivated to change the defaults, unless they're told they should change by "clicking here" in prominent (non-ad) banners. Mozilla cannot buy the OS defaults nor such brand positions.
scarface_74 2y ago
Android is only 30% of the market in the US. I don’t know how much browser usage comes from Chromebooks. Every single Windows and Mac user who uses Chrome made an affirmative choice to download Chrome. Why didn’t they decide to download Firefox?
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  Did they make an active choice? Or did an OEM or family member add Chrome to their machine? Or did a Google nag banner convince them to switch?
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Which PC OEM ships computers with Chrome? And is it somehow anti competitive because a family member chose Chrome over Firefox?
afavour 2y ago
Yeah, this is my takeaway as well. Folks in this discussion are saying “why can’t Mozilla just focus on making Firefox” and my response would be “because that’s the path to eventual death”. Firefox is, what, 3% of the browser market today? It isn’t because it’s a bad browser. It’s because people are using OSes with tightly integrated browsers they never think to change. Making Firefox faster or adding vertical tabs or whatever the demand of the day is won’t change that.
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  All that money for years put into an income-producing endowment could pay for firefox and tbird indefinitely. Desktops aren't going away, even if mobile outgrew them.
- TulliusCicero 2y ago
  People still download Chrome onto Windows. Used to be they did that for Firefox/Firebird/Phoenix.
  - afavour 2y ago
    I would argue the reason so many people do that is because every time you visit a Google property it prompts you to do so. Mozilla doesn’t have the advantage of owning sites that are part of people’s daily routines either.
    - TulliusCicero 2y ago
      Yeah, but before Chrome people were doing this for Firefox, just from word of mouth.
      - paulryanrogers 2y ago
        Word of mouth is quite a bit different. It's the opinion of many unconflicted friends/family vs the opinion of one megacorp with a conflict of interest.
- 2y ago

n_ary 2y ago

> Do regular users even know the difference […] Honestly, from observing my close family and friends as well as passing by strangers, everyone uses whatever default comes(i.e. Chrome on Android) or again Chrome(on iOS because they saw some banner ad somewhere to install it to access their password stored previously in android life). The core portal to internet currently appears to be the blue-F(aka Facebook) icon which has an interesting search. People search in Facebook for specific topic and then will reluctantly move over to browser and again search on Google(always default). So, in summary no, everyone uses Chrome and does not know the difference. Some of my colleagues seem to use Brave and Linux die-hards use Firefox(comes default with ubuntu last I tried ubuntu).

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago

You're spending money in the wrong place - spend it on marketing instead of dev, and you've got a shot.

paulryanrogers 2y ago
People aren't motivated to change the defaults, unless they're told they should change by "clicking here" in prominent (non-ad) banners. Mozilla cannot buy the OS defaults nor such brand positions.

scarface_74 2y ago

Android is only 30% of the market in the US. I don’t know how much browser usage comes from Chromebooks. Every single Windows and Mac user who uses Chrome made an affirmative choice to download Chrome. Why didn’t they decide to download Firefox?

paulryanrogers 2y ago
Did they make an active choice? Or did an OEM or family member add Chrome to their machine? Or did a Google nag banner convince them to switch?
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Which PC OEM ships computers with Chrome? And is it somehow anti competitive because a family member chose Chrome over Firefox?

afavour 2y ago

Yeah, this is my takeaway as well. Folks in this discussion are saying “why can’t Mozilla just focus on making Firefox” and my response would be “because that’s the path to eventual death”. Firefox is, what, 3% of the browser market today? It isn’t because it’s a bad browser. It’s because people are using OSes with tightly integrated browsers they never think to change. Making Firefox faster or adding vertical tabs or whatever the demand of the day is won’t change that.

mixmastamyk 2y ago
All that money for years put into an income-producing endowment could pay for firefox and tbird indefinitely. Desktops aren't going away, even if mobile outgrew them.
TulliusCicero 2y ago
People still download Chrome onto Windows. Used to be they did that for Firefox/Firebird/Phoenix.
- afavour 2y ago
  I would argue the reason so many people do that is because every time you visit a Google property it prompts you to do so. Mozilla doesn’t have the advantage of owning sites that are part of people’s daily routines either.
  - TulliusCicero 2y ago
    Yeah, but before Chrome people were doing this for Firefox, just from word of mouth.
    - paulryanrogers 2y ago
      Word of mouth is quite a bit different. It's the opinion of many unconflicted friends/family vs the opinion of one megacorp with a conflict of interest.
2y ago