4 ms·

As a EU citizen I really wish we weren't stupid enough to impose counter tariffs. Just because the Trump administration is punishing (ultimately) its citizens

by runeks 2y ago

As a EU citizen I really wish we weren't stupid enough to impose counter tariffs. Just because the Trump administration is punishing (ultimately) its citizens for buying non-US goods doesn't mean I want the EU to punish me as well.

wdb 2y ago
I prefer not to buy any US goods when not absolutely necessary. No need to support a country that wants annex a EU country.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Unfortunely we are a bit compromised in what concerns computing, we need to get back to cold war ecosystem of computing hardware, operating systems and programming languages.
  - hoppp 2y ago
    Deal. Americans can have Windows and MacOs and Europeans will have Linux. It's a fair deal no take-backsies
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      We also need to sort out the hardware where Linux runs.
    - seec 2y ago
      While Linux did originate in the EU, it is now primarily sponsored by American companies. In fact, one can argue that Linux is originally a poor copy of UNIX that was possible only because it would have been complicated to make the IP legal claims where it was born. And its rise is largely linked to the internet (from DARPA) and later Android (from Google). The EU is largely a freeloader when it comes to tech things and it seems like it cannot succeed in that field largely because of the EU bureaucracy (try to standardize things before they even started). I think it's about time the EU starts to worrying about that, because it is no good to be so dependent on another country for something so critical.
  - wqaatwt 2y ago
    Do tariffs targeting US goods apply to products manufactured in China or Taiwan (by American companies)? Why would they?
- iammjm 2y ago
  Exactly, fuck US-products as long as Agent Orange is in power. I never really cared about where my goods come from, but suddenly I do after a month of #47.
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  Good that the US do not want to annex any EU countries, then ... ... because, if you are referring to Greenland, then are not in the EU and have again just voted for their Parliament and sent a clear message that they don't want to be controlled by Denmark, either (not part of the US, either, just independent with possibly closer ties with the US). And in any case, this is typical Trumpian bluster. Possibly the aim is to make independence happen because that would suit the US.
piva00 2y ago
As a EU citizen I have the complete opposite view, why should we be impacted by lower exports due to American tariffs while still letting their products access our market without repercussions? Even more, none of the tariffs imposed on the USA will impact your consumption directly, there are alternatives to them and with the price increase you'll naturally choose those alternatives that are cheaper. Nothing being levied a tariff is a product that only the USA exports to the EU.
- runeks 2y ago
  > [...] why should we be impacted by lower exports due to American tariffs while still letting their products access our market without repercussions? You'll be impacted by lower exports regardless. Reciprocal tariffs do not change that fact. My question to you is: why would I, as a consumer, want to make certain US exports more expensive for me to buy? Because the US does the same to their own consumers? How does that make any sense?
  - piva00 2y ago
    > My question to you is: why would I, as a consumer, want to make certain US exports more expensive for me to buy? Because the US does the same to their own consumers? How does that make any sense? Because without reciprocity of tariffs USA's exports will have an unfair advantage against EU's exports, the EU will be losing money which impacts every EU citizen. Does it suck you will be impacted? Of course, without reciprocal tariffs you'd also suffer the impact but instead of being higher prices it'd be by the USA selling more of their products while the EU would lose jobs, lowering our tax base, and all its 2nd and 3rd order effects. If we are going to suffer anyway then it's best to make the USA suffer as well to have leverage when eventually it gets negotiated, what you are asking for is for the EU to have no leverage, creating an environment where in any negotiation the EU will have less power. Blame the USA's government, the EU is just trying to protect itself and have some leverage against those stupid actions.
wqaatwt 2y ago
Well you’d (average EU citizen) could be losing your job because European companies would lose a significant proportion of sales to the US while still having to compete with American companies locally.
- runeks 2y ago
  I welcome companies in my area having to compete with US companies. The more competition the better for me and my fellow consumers.
  - wqaatwt 2y ago
    If you’re purely a consumer and your income does not depend on the overall state of the local/national/European economy then yes, that would be the most beneficial approach
koonsolo 2y ago
These tariffs are highly focussed on hurting red states. So in practice that means: - Alcohol: Are you really buying American Alcohol when you live in EU??? - Harley-Davidson: Do you plan to buy one the next few years? - Jeans: I'm sure there will be plenty of choice in all price ranges. EU did the same thing in the past when Trump was president. It's really a 'been there done that' type of thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Trump_tariffs#European https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Trump_tariffs#European
- runeks 2y ago
  > These tariffs are highly focussed on hurting red states. If I, as a consumer, were interested in "hurting red states" I could just not buy anything from them. No need for the EU (or my country's government) to impose this choice on me.
hackeraccount 2y ago
Here I thought I was the last person who considered free trade a good thing
Marsymars 2y ago
For non-substitutable goods that makes sense, but if a company is choosing where to establish new manufacturing, you've now heavily incentivized them to manufacture in the US rather than the EU, as that way they get no tariffs in either direction.

by runeks 2y ago

wdb 2y ago

I prefer not to buy any US goods when not absolutely necessary. No need to support a country that wants annex a EU country.

pjmlp 2y ago
Unfortunely we are a bit compromised in what concerns computing, we need to get back to cold war ecosystem of computing hardware, operating systems and programming languages.
- hoppp 2y ago
  Deal. Americans can have Windows and MacOs and Europeans will have Linux. It's a fair deal no take-backsies
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    We also need to sort out the hardware where Linux runs.
  - seec 2y ago
    While Linux did originate in the EU, it is now primarily sponsored by American companies. In fact, one can argue that Linux is originally a poor copy of UNIX that was possible only because it would have been complicated to make the IP legal claims where it was born. And its rise is largely linked to the internet (from DARPA) and later Android (from Google). The EU is largely a freeloader when it comes to tech things and it seems like it cannot succeed in that field largely because of the EU bureaucracy (try to standardize things before they even started). I think it's about time the EU starts to worrying about that, because it is no good to be so dependent on another country for something so critical.
- wqaatwt 2y ago
  Do tariffs targeting US goods apply to products manufactured in China or Taiwan (by American companies)? Why would they?
iammjm 2y ago
Exactly, fuck US-products as long as Agent Orange is in power. I never really cared about where my goods come from, but suddenly I do after a month of #47.
mytailorisrich 2y ago
Good that the US do not want to annex any EU countries, then ... ... because, if you are referring to Greenland, then are not in the EU and have again just voted for their Parliament and sent a clear message that they don't want to be controlled by Denmark, either (not part of the US, either, just independent with possibly closer ties with the US). And in any case, this is typical Trumpian bluster. Possibly the aim is to make independence happen because that would suit the US.

piva00 2y ago

As a EU citizen I have the complete opposite view, why should we be impacted by lower exports due to American tariffs while still letting their products access our market without repercussions? Even more, none of the tariffs imposed on the USA will impact your consumption directly, there are alternatives to them and with the price increase you'll naturally choose those alternatives that are cheaper. Nothing being levied a tariff is a product that only the USA exports to the EU.

runeks 2y ago
> [...] why should we be impacted by lower exports due to American tariffs while still letting their products access our market without repercussions? You'll be impacted by lower exports regardless. Reciprocal tariffs do not change that fact. My question to you is: why would I, as a consumer, want to make certain US exports more expensive for me to buy? Because the US does the same to their own consumers? How does that make any sense?
- piva00 2y ago
  > My question to you is: why would I, as a consumer, want to make certain US exports more expensive for me to buy? Because the US does the same to their own consumers? How does that make any sense? Because without reciprocity of tariffs USA's exports will have an unfair advantage against EU's exports, the EU will be losing money which impacts every EU citizen. Does it suck you will be impacted? Of course, without reciprocal tariffs you'd also suffer the impact but instead of being higher prices it'd be by the USA selling more of their products while the EU would lose jobs, lowering our tax base, and all its 2nd and 3rd order effects. If we are going to suffer anyway then it's best to make the USA suffer as well to have leverage when eventually it gets negotiated, what you are asking for is for the EU to have no leverage, creating an environment where in any negotiation the EU will have less power. Blame the USA's government, the EU is just trying to protect itself and have some leverage against those stupid actions.

wqaatwt 2y ago

Well you’d (average EU citizen) could be losing your job because European companies would lose a significant proportion of sales to the US while still having to compete with American companies locally.

runeks 2y ago
I welcome companies in my area having to compete with US companies. The more competition the better for me and my fellow consumers.
- wqaatwt 2y ago
  If you’re purely a consumer and your income does not depend on the overall state of the local/national/European economy then yes, that would be the most beneficial approach

koonsolo 2y ago

These tariffs are highly focussed on hurting red states. So in practice that means: - Alcohol: Are you really buying American Alcohol when you live in EU??? - Harley-Davidson: Do you plan to buy one the next few years? - Jeans: I'm sure there will be plenty of choice in all price ranges. EU did the same thing in the past when Trump was president. It's really a 'been there done that' type of thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Trump_tariffs#European https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Trump_tariffs#European

runeks 2y ago
> These tariffs are highly focussed on hurting red states. If I, as a consumer, were interested in "hurting red states" I could just not buy anything from them. No need for the EU (or my country's government) to impose this choice on me.

hackeraccount 2y ago

Here I thought I was the last person who considered free trade a good thing

Marsymars 2y ago

For non-substitutable goods that makes sense, but if a company is choosing where to establish new manufacturing, you've now heavily incentivized them to manufacture in the US rather than the EU, as that way they get no tariffs in either direction.