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>How do you tariff a software service ? Tariffs are applied at import ? Are you paying US software if its hosted in EU datacenter by EU subsidiary? If there's

>How do you tariff a software service ? Tariffs are applied at import ? Are you paying US software if its hosted in EU datacenter by EU subsidiary? If there's a political will and your position is strong enough, a scheme / legal formula is trivial to find. Even something like "5% of what you make off showing ads to European users" would be enough. Can add any arbitrary qualifier like "if your main base of operations is outside the EU" - which could hold whether you're a EU subsidiary or not.

frereubu 2y ago
I don't agree that it's "trivial". The devil will be in the detail and could drag out in the courts depending on the language definitions. Quite apart from the fact that anything dreamt up at short notice is going to have shortcomings, tariffs are much easier impose when you're transporting physical objects across physical borders.
hoseyor 2y ago
That still does not make sense. Do you block your own citizens from accessing sites hosted in foreign countries if those sites/companies don’t comply with your foreign law? Do you arrest your citizens for accessing those sites anyways or use VPNs to circumvent blocking? And there are dozens of other questions that raises, but you’re talking about what most people describe as totalitarian states.
- coldtea 2y ago
  >Do you block your own citizens from accessing sites hosted in foreign countries if those sites/companies don’t comply with your foreign law? Sure happens, including in the EU. There are some european anti-copyright-theft laws for example, and local ISPs are forced to block some warez/pirated ebook etc websites (you can bypass via VPN, but the "official" gateways/DNS block them). >Do you arrest your citizens for accessing those sites anyways or use VPNs to circumvent blocking? Not at the moment. And the logistics do not make it very easy (can't track each individual). But you can sure fine any commercial company accessing such sites, prohibit state infrastructure and any company doing work with your state from using them, etc. I'm not sure what the objection is. Do you mean "does not make sense" from a democratic/open society standpoint (as if european countries are a bastion of that, and such moves are beneath the legislators)? Or that it "does not make sense" from a technical aspect? For the latter, when there's a will, there's a way.
rafaelmn 2y ago
That's not a tariff that's a tax. If you start taxing foreign entities different from local you are violating all sorts of treaties and depending on how the laws are written it could be unconstitutional discrimination (once you start talking about foreign ownership etc.)
- coldtea 2y ago
  >That's not a tariff that's a tax. A tarrif is a tax. Doesn't have to be on physical products or be applied at the customs office. >If you start taxing foreign entities different from local you are violating all sorts of treaties and depending on how the laws are written it could be unconstitutional discrimination (once you start talking about foreign ownership etc.) Nothing that couldn't be overcome. Those treaties didn't exist at one point, and wont exist on another point.
  - rafaelmn 2y ago
    That's like saying we should start supplying Ukraine with nukes because we're already supplying them weapons. Logically they are both weapons, but in real world one of those options ends with a nuclear armageddon. Implementing anti US tax is escalating the tarrif posturing to a full blown trade war.

frereubu 2y ago

I don't agree that it's "trivial". The devil will be in the detail and could drag out in the courts depending on the language definitions. Quite apart from the fact that anything dreamt up at short notice is going to have shortcomings, tariffs are much easier impose when you're transporting physical objects across physical borders.

hoseyor 2y ago

That still does not make sense. Do you block your own citizens from accessing sites hosted in foreign countries if those sites/companies don’t comply with your foreign law? Do you arrest your citizens for accessing those sites anyways or use VPNs to circumvent blocking? And there are dozens of other questions that raises, but you’re talking about what most people describe as totalitarian states.

coldtea 2y ago
>Do you block your own citizens from accessing sites hosted in foreign countries if those sites/companies don’t comply with your foreign law? Sure happens, including in the EU. There are some european anti-copyright-theft laws for example, and local ISPs are forced to block some warez/pirated ebook etc websites (you can bypass via VPN, but the "official" gateways/DNS block them). >Do you arrest your citizens for accessing those sites anyways or use VPNs to circumvent blocking? Not at the moment. And the logistics do not make it very easy (can't track each individual). But you can sure fine any commercial company accessing such sites, prohibit state infrastructure and any company doing work with your state from using them, etc. I'm not sure what the objection is. Do you mean "does not make sense" from a democratic/open society standpoint (as if european countries are a bastion of that, and such moves are beneath the legislators)? Or that it "does not make sense" from a technical aspect? For the latter, when there's a will, there's a way.

rafaelmn 2y ago

That's not a tariff that's a tax. If you start taxing foreign entities different from local you are violating all sorts of treaties and depending on how the laws are written it could be unconstitutional discrimination (once you start talking about foreign ownership etc.)

coldtea 2y ago
>That's not a tariff that's a tax. A tarrif is a tax. Doesn't have to be on physical products or be applied at the customs office. >If you start taxing foreign entities different from local you are violating all sorts of treaties and depending on how the laws are written it could be unconstitutional discrimination (once you start talking about foreign ownership etc.) Nothing that couldn't be overcome. Those treaties didn't exist at one point, and wont exist on another point.
- rafaelmn 2y ago
  That's like saying we should start supplying Ukraine with nukes because we're already supplying them weapons. Logically they are both weapons, but in real world one of those options ends with a nuclear armageddon. Implementing anti US tax is escalating the tarrif posturing to a full blown trade war.