5 ms·

Great points! This is meant as whole room backup - so it’ll keep your fridge (and a few other small devices like wifi, etc) running for 2-3 days - a pretty long

• delfinom 2y ago
  Bullshit on the fridge. A modern day french door uses almost 2 kWh per day at the mid range model level (which really isn't that different from older top freezers). Higher end fridges use even more. The 1.6 kWh capacity isn't enough for 2-3 days.
  • danila22 2y ago
    Wow that’s crazy! What fridge is that?
  • chadconway 2y ago
    > 2kWh per day. That’s a lot of energy! What fridge do you have?
    • beezle 2y ago
      According to this, it really is not: https://www.energysage.com/electricity/house-watts/how-many-watts-does-a-refrigerator-use/ https://www.energysage.com/electricity/house-watts/how-many-...
    • kelnos 2y ago
      Wow, I was surprised by this claim too, and found the specs for my fridge[0]. 755 kWh/yr, which works out to just over 2 kWh/day. Damn, that's a lot! [0] https://www.samsung.com/us/home-appliances/refrigerators/4-door-french-door/28-cu--ft--4-door-french-door-refrigerator-in-fingerprint-resistant-stainless-steel-rf28r7201sr-aa/#specs https://www.samsung.com/us/home-appliances/refrigerators/4-d... (my fridge is probably around 15 years old, so it might even be less efficient if this one is a newer model)
      • chupasaurus 2y ago
        Check out this[0] and think about regional markets: half the capacity with 108kWh/yr consumption. I had theirs previous gen one and can attest that the number is correct. [0] https://www.samsung.com/uk/refrigerators/bottom-mount-freezer/bottom-mount-freezer-with-smartthings-ai-energy-mo-387l-silver-rl38c776asr-eu/ https://www.samsung.com/uk/refrigerators/bottom-mount-freeze...
  • 22c 2y ago
    Sadly, a modern day french door is pretty inefficient. Consumers prefer them because of their looks but they are very far from being an efficient way to keep food cold.
    • kelnos 2y ago
      Why are they any less efficient than a single-door fridge? Losses in between the two doors? I don't see why it should be much different. Both types of fridge causes the cold air to "fall out" when you open the door(s). A top-loading chest fridge/freezer is of course most efficient, but don't think many people have those in their kitchens.
      • 22c 2y ago
        French door has less insulation because there's more "seams". Also typical french doors tend to have an ice machine or water dispenser, which is even less insulation and/or more seams.
• selykg 2y ago
  I can’t afford something like this but I would absolutely get something similar to this if I could. My sump pumps are literally one of my biggest home ownership worries.
  • Aurornis 2y ago
    > My sump pumps are literally one of my biggest home ownership worries. There are a lot of sump pump backup solutions on the market at around half the price of this unit. There are also a lot of similar lithium battery + solar devices at less than half the price: https://us.ecoflow.com/products/delta-2-portable-power-station https://us.ecoflow.com/products/delta-2-portable-power-stati...
  • nikodunk 2y ago
    We can start a Sump Pump with the 7,800W startup power (2,400W running). I’d recommend DIY if you don’t want/need/can’t afford an integrated solution. I built my own with parts off Amazon but it doesn’t take a bit of knowledge and research. Fun project though. This is definitely aimed at the other 99% that’s not gonna wire this up themselves though, of course :)
  • zdragnar 2y ago
    My dad put together a backup system- in spring time, they get weeks of water running at their house, so he's got two pumps on two separate batteries in case either pump or battery dies. You can even get an all in one system for around $200 if you want to save up for something more robust: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Basement-Watchdog-Emergency-Battery-Backup-Sump-Pump-System-BWE/100055241 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Basement-Watchdog-Emergency-Batt...
  • koolba 2y ago
    You should address that with exterior grading and diverting gutter run off so far away from the structure that it can’t seep back toward your basement. If water can get in, it will. And it will do it when your sump is not operating. If you’ve already addressed it externally and you’re still seeing water come in, then you didn’t address it completely. End state should a totally passive system where the sump never even fills. And if that doesn’t work, sell the house and get one on top of a hill!
• Aurornis 2y ago
  > Great points - however this can keep your fridge running for 2-3 days (a pretty long outage). Your own marketing page claims 32 hours (a little over 1 day). It's the very first icon in the table. EDIT: And your other comment now says 3-4 days for a fridge ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43338397 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43338397 ). Getting hard to believe all of these different numbers.
  • nikodunk 2y ago
    TLDR depends on the efficiency of the fridge. You’re right of course though - I edited linked comment to be more conservative at 2-3 days also. I can get my personal lab fridge to last 5 days though (110W power draw, once every hour for 5 minutes). :P If your outage is longer than expected, the battery will recharge in a little over an hour and be ready to go again (if the grid comes on for a bit, or from your generator, a neighbor's etc).
    • o11c 2y ago
      Hmm ... "Stores power from your generator" might be a market with room here since generators are often inefficient (and produce weird power) and batteries have grown a lot lately. OTOH, in practice home generators are more limited by "how often do we need to (and given the state of the infrastructure, can we) go buy a new can of gas" than efficiency. And even if efficiency does matter, how long will it take to pay off? Practical problems we had the one time we actually needed our generator were: * (remember to turn off the main breaker) * whoops, we blew the GFCI when we tried to back-feed power through an external outlet, so we had to run an extension cord through a door (with all that implies). This is the only thing that actually took us by surprise and took some debugging in the weeks following. * the 120V generator only one half of the split phase, so every other circuit in the breaker box doesn't work. Pick your half carefully! * the generator is strong enough to run normal appliances, but not the well pump (note: we had a completely different plan for heating). Here I suppose a battery could've been useful ... but then, the reason we didn't just buy a bigger generator in the first place was cost (for an extended-outage event that only happens once in multiple decades; for anything shorter you can just ... not open the fridge). * (just a note that with the increasing electrification of cars, some variant of "plug your house into your car" is likely to become more of a thing) While I've seen the grid flicker, this has only ever happened just at the start or just before it comes on permanently, so I'm not sure how useful it is to consider the "comes on for a bit" case either.
• bigtimesink 2y ago
  > Great points - however this can keep your fridge running for 2-3 days (a pretty long outage). $1,000 buys a lot of groceries. It's cheaper to to have a small supply of shelf stable food for outages. > It can also do arbitrage and charge when it’s cheap and deploy the power when it’s expensive. This has the same problem. It takes a long time to make back the $1000.
  • nikodunk 2y ago
    Definitely! It’s primarily backup, and secondarily an arbitrage device :) The average fridge loss is estimated at $300 per outage, and the average fridge outage insurance claim is $600 I just learned today from an insurance agent at SXSW at our booth (apparently a lot of lobster is bought the day of the outage :P).
    • lucb1e 2y ago
      > The average fridge loss is estimated at $300 per outage Holy crap, I don't think our fridge fits 300 dollars' worth of food. We have trouble fitting a ~140€ grocery run into the fridge and probably at least half of that is non-refrigerated products. Hard to say how many days' food this is, probably close to a week, so a 36h+ outage (where the fridge actually got warm for a while) would have an average occupancy of much less than the initial 140€, maybe 60 or so? Idk. Not that I remember ever having a power outage longer than 8 hours in my life, neither the Netherlands nor Germany nor Belgium nor Finland (the countries I lived in) Either Americans and their fridges are built different or this risk (chance & impact) is way overblown Does this perhaps include opportunity cost where you can't work because you need to get new groceries? Generously, let's say you spend an hour in the store and an hour planning, going, and unpacking, so you'd be valuing those 2h at a consultancy rate of some 100$/hour
      • sgerenser 2y ago
        American fridges are generally much bigger than European ones. Mine is something like 27 cubic feet, which I understand is around double the size of an average European fridge. I don’t think I’ve ever lost power for long enough that I lost anything in the fridge though, but there are parts of the country with a much less reliable grid (usually due to severe storms or other natural disasters).
• longos 2y ago
  The portability of the unit also makes a great use case for off-grid, getaway or usage in a remote location, or perhaps just as an additional option for existing setups. Being able to plug it into a NA standard plug into a more capable generator (or other outlet) to recharge is useful. Without knowing the price point... van life folks have solar batteries and the published power specs seem to be competitive and useful for powering higher-draw appliances and devices. The payback period to make arbitrage useful would be very specific to the user and how much electricity costs in their locale, but this calculation should take into account the delivery costs component of a utility bill that can be the same or higher than the cost of the actual electricity.
  • chadconway 2y ago
    Price is $999 for people who pay $99 for pre-order. Normal price is $1299
• WillAdams 2y ago
  Have you looked at any of the integrated options? Apparently a company in San Francisco put together 110V electric stoves with induction cooktops and integrated batteries --- they then sold them to folks applying for tax rebates to replace gas stoves in kitchens which weren't wired for 220V. One notable appliance you don't mention on your website is electric water pumps for wells in rural areas.... Similarly, are your devices able to provide sine wave power to run small electric tool motors? Folks with CNC machines might be interested, or perhaps they could run tools on jobsites? How many small tool batteries could be charged from one? Would it fit in a Systainer? Might make a nice fit for folks w/ Festools.
  • kelnos 2y ago
    > One notable appliance you don't mention on your website is electric water pumps for wells in rural areas.... We had a well in one of the houses we lived in when I was a kid, and its pump was wired directly to our mains panel. So this sort of thing wouldn't work with a Plia, which assumes you're dealing with stuff that plugs into a normal electrical outlet. Certainly this type of setup could be rewired to have an outlet and a plug in the middle, but for most people that would mean hiring an electrician.
    • WillAdams 2y ago
      After one lengthy power outage and no running water to flush a toilet, most homeowners would consider that a worthwhile investment.
    • WillAdams 2y ago
      Or, perhaps they could work up a package where the battery gets sold with a well pump by a house builder/well driller/plumber doing the pump install?
• jonah 2y ago
  Are the batteries COTS units? In 10 years when they fail, can I get new ones from Grainger or Amazon or wherever and replace them?
• beezle 2y ago
  I struggle with the math on how this is running your typical fridge for even 16 hours