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So it's just a smarter UPS, (that can integrate with solar panels) but you only compare it to a standby generator. Seems like you need to compare it to a UPS t

So it's just a smarter UPS, (that can integrate with solar panels) but you only compare it to a standby generator. Seems like you need to compare it to a UPS too, because that's what it really, really is.

coleashman 2y ago
This audience is definitely more up on tech - I've been surprised how often folks I talk to have never heard of UPS's! We know we're not the first people to think of automatic plug in backup :) Aspirationally, we aim to do to the UPS what the Powerwall did to the lead acid battery bank -- Bring it into the 21st century, level up to better technology, add software intelligence so it's not sitting idle 99% of the time, and improve the design and usability to make it a more exciting and valuable product for more homes
- VectorLock 2y ago
  >add software intelligence so it's not sitting idle 99% Its a battery backup, how would it not be sitting idle 99% of the time?
  - chadconway 2y ago
    It can charge when energy is cheap & discharge when energy is expensive. If you have solar it can charge when solar is producing and discharge at night.
  - coleashman 2y ago
    Good clarification! Smarter backup batteries like Pila or Powerwall can be configured to dynamically charge and discharge, giving the benefit of outage protection and energy management. For example, charge up from the solar power you produce at home, and use that stored solar power to offset energy usage at night or when utility power is expensive. They they have a "backup reserve" setting which allows you to set a minimum charge to always be stored for an unexpected outage. Smart features like "Storm Mode" can use severe weather alerts to automatically charge up to 100% ahead of an outage to ensure you're prepared for possible outages
xtracto 2y ago
At first I thought it was some kind of UPS that would automatically "inject" AC to the house when it detected that there was no current in the mains (hence the connection to mains). But it seems it is just a glorified UPS... is that what the tesla "Wall" is?
- nightfly 2y ago
  > is that what the tesla "Wall" is? Yes, plus an auto-transfer-switch
- jasonjayr 2y ago
  A "no Electrician required" device that plugs into your wall and back-feeds power is a HUGE safety issue, and a HUGE no-no. Half the problem with home-generation is a cutoff/sync device that synchronizes the frequency of your local generation with the grid, and kills power going back into the grid from your home generator when there is an outage, so line workers can do their jobs safely. And unless there is a more expensive/complicated device that can 'smear' the frequencys between the two systems slowly so they match after a disconnect/reconnect, most of these systems will shutdown local generation if there is no reference frequency from the main power feed.
  - gwbas1c 2y ago
    There is some merit to using it with appliances like refrigerators and washing machines. No backfeeding needed.
    - chadconway 2y ago
      100%
    - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
      So, a UPS, or a Jackery
    - jasonjayr 2y ago
      Right -- as long as it's just feeding power to the appliance, via a downstream outlet, like a UPS typically does. You can't send power back through the outlet the Pila is attached to, but you can send power to anything connected to it downstream. I think it's a neat product, a UPS that doesn't look like a computer peripheral, that has large enough capacity to be useful for important appliances like fridges, that can be integrated into common spaces, and with some kind of management utility that can ensure the battery health is monitored.
Animats 2y ago
Right. There are dozens of those things on Amazon, usually called a "power station". 1.1KWh costs about US$700. 2KWh costs about US$1000. This thing is 1.2KWh for $1000. "Reserve now ... Orders are expected start shipping by the end of 2025." Can't get funding? Or just testing demand without a real product? Nobody does Kickstarters for a me-too product. It has an "app" user interface, requiring both a cellular connection and the service remaining in business. Plus it wants WiFi so it can receive "software updates". What could possibly go wrong?
- Nextgrid 2y ago
  It's a battery/power bank/station that can be remotely controlled and aggregated into a so-called "virtual power plant", which the manufacturer can then sell power source/sink capacity to grid operators. That's why the cellular connectivity is there. That is the true purpose of the entire operation - all other functionality is a distraction (and can be taken away at any time by a software update despite any promises). As per their FAQ (https://pilaenergy.com/tech-specs#faq https://pilaenergy.com/tech-specs#faq): > As balcony solar and plug-and-power products gain momentum, we welcome collaboration with AHJs and utilities to help responsibly shape the future of home energy. If you're interested in partnering with Pila, reach out! The plan is to find enough people to buy these so they have enough aggregate storage capacity to solicit "collaboration" and "partnerships" (https://pilaenergy.com/press https://pilaenergy.com/press) with utilities and make profit (I'm fairly confident the device is currently sold at a loss), with the buyers getting scraps in the best case scenario, and nothing in the worst/expected case. I guess the buyers of the batteries will at least be satisfied with the knowledge that they have paid to "responsibly shape the future of home energy".
- DarmokJalad1701 2y ago
  > It has an "app" user interface, requiring both a cellular connection and the service remaining in business. Plus it wants WiFi so it can receive "software updates". What could possibly go wrong? Do not be so dismissive so fast without reading. The FAQs and the website says that they have a local interface and requires no internet for controlling it. E.g from https://pilaenergy.com/tech-specs https://pilaenergy.com/tech-specs "While we think you’ll love the Pila App, you’re welcome to connect your own monitoring platform with our free local APIs. We embrace and actively support open standards like Home Assistant, Matter, and Thread for local data streaming from Pila Batteries — Because your data should always stay yours. Local API documentation coming soon. " "Pila does not require internet to provide backup power, monitoring, or smart energy management features. The Pila Battery Mesh Network keeps all batteries working together, even when your home Internet goes out. The Pila App includes a Local Connection Mode for reliable battery control and monitoring without internet. For reliable Remote Monitoring, all Pila batteries are equipped with a cellular 4G LTE radio for backup communication when home Wi-Fi fails. However, we highly recommend keeping Pila batteries connected to Wi-Fi to receive the latest software updates and unlock new features, enhancements, and performance improvements—ensuring your system gets smarter and more capable over time."

coleashman 2y ago

This audience is definitely more up on tech - I've been surprised how often folks I talk to have never heard of UPS's! We know we're not the first people to think of automatic plug in backup :) Aspirationally, we aim to do to the UPS what the Powerwall did to the lead acid battery bank -- Bring it into the 21st century, level up to better technology, add software intelligence so it's not sitting idle 99% of the time, and improve the design and usability to make it a more exciting and valuable product for more homes

VectorLock 2y ago
>add software intelligence so it's not sitting idle 99% Its a battery backup, how would it not be sitting idle 99% of the time?
- chadconway 2y ago
  It can charge when energy is cheap & discharge when energy is expensive. If you have solar it can charge when solar is producing and discharge at night.
- coleashman 2y ago
  Good clarification! Smarter backup batteries like Pila or Powerwall can be configured to dynamically charge and discharge, giving the benefit of outage protection and energy management. For example, charge up from the solar power you produce at home, and use that stored solar power to offset energy usage at night or when utility power is expensive. They they have a "backup reserve" setting which allows you to set a minimum charge to always be stored for an unexpected outage. Smart features like "Storm Mode" can use severe weather alerts to automatically charge up to 100% ahead of an outage to ensure you're prepared for possible outages

xtracto 2y ago

At first I thought it was some kind of UPS that would automatically "inject" AC to the house when it detected that there was no current in the mains (hence the connection to mains). But it seems it is just a glorified UPS... is that what the tesla "Wall" is?

nightfly 2y ago
> is that what the tesla "Wall" is? Yes, plus an auto-transfer-switch
jasonjayr 2y ago
A "no Electrician required" device that plugs into your wall and back-feeds power is a HUGE safety issue, and a HUGE no-no. Half the problem with home-generation is a cutoff/sync device that synchronizes the frequency of your local generation with the grid, and kills power going back into the grid from your home generator when there is an outage, so line workers can do their jobs safely. And unless there is a more expensive/complicated device that can 'smear' the frequencys between the two systems slowly so they match after a disconnect/reconnect, most of these systems will shutdown local generation if there is no reference frequency from the main power feed.
- gwbas1c 2y ago
  There is some merit to using it with appliances like refrigerators and washing machines. No backfeeding needed.
  - chadconway 2y ago
    100%
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    So, a UPS, or a Jackery
  - jasonjayr 2y ago
    Right -- as long as it's just feeding power to the appliance, via a downstream outlet, like a UPS typically does. You can't send power back through the outlet the Pila is attached to, but you can send power to anything connected to it downstream. I think it's a neat product, a UPS that doesn't look like a computer peripheral, that has large enough capacity to be useful for important appliances like fridges, that can be integrated into common spaces, and with some kind of management utility that can ensure the battery health is monitored.

Animats 2y ago

Right. There are dozens of those things on Amazon, usually called a "power station". 1.1KWh costs about US$700. 2KWh costs about US$1000. This thing is 1.2KWh for $1000. "Reserve now ... Orders are expected start shipping by the end of 2025." Can't get funding? Or just testing demand without a real product? Nobody does Kickstarters for a me-too product. It has an "app" user interface, requiring both a cellular connection and the service remaining in business. Plus it wants WiFi so it can receive "software updates". What could possibly go wrong?

Nextgrid 2y ago
It's a battery/power bank/station that can be remotely controlled and aggregated into a so-called "virtual power plant", which the manufacturer can then sell power source/sink capacity to grid operators. That's why the cellular connectivity is there. That is the true purpose of the entire operation - all other functionality is a distraction (and can be taken away at any time by a software update despite any promises). As per their FAQ (https://pilaenergy.com/tech-specs#faq https://pilaenergy.com/tech-specs#faq): > As balcony solar and plug-and-power products gain momentum, we welcome collaboration with AHJs and utilities to help responsibly shape the future of home energy. If you're interested in partnering with Pila, reach out! The plan is to find enough people to buy these so they have enough aggregate storage capacity to solicit "collaboration" and "partnerships" (https://pilaenergy.com/press https://pilaenergy.com/press) with utilities and make profit (I'm fairly confident the device is currently sold at a loss), with the buyers getting scraps in the best case scenario, and nothing in the worst/expected case. I guess the buyers of the batteries will at least be satisfied with the knowledge that they have paid to "responsibly shape the future of home energy".
DarmokJalad1701 2y ago
> It has an "app" user interface, requiring both a cellular connection and the service remaining in business. Plus it wants WiFi so it can receive "software updates". What could possibly go wrong? Do not be so dismissive so fast without reading. The FAQs and the website says that they have a local interface and requires no internet for controlling it. E.g from https://pilaenergy.com/tech-specs https://pilaenergy.com/tech-specs "While we think you’ll love the Pila App, you’re welcome to connect your own monitoring platform with our free local APIs. We embrace and actively support open standards like Home Assistant, Matter, and Thread for local data streaming from Pila Batteries — Because your data should always stay yours. Local API documentation coming soon. " "Pila does not require internet to provide backup power, monitoring, or smart energy management features. The Pila Battery Mesh Network keeps all batteries working together, even when your home Internet goes out. The Pila App includes a Local Connection Mode for reliable battery control and monitoring without internet. For reliable Remote Monitoring, all Pila batteries are equipped with a cellular 4G LTE radio for backup communication when home Wi-Fi fails. However, we highly recommend keeping Pila batteries connected to Wi-Fi to receive the latest software updates and unlock new features, enhancements, and performance improvements—ensuring your system gets smarter and more capable over time."