5 ms·

Notably not mentioned: Model Context Protocol https://www.anthropic.com/news/model-context-protocol https://www.anthropic.com/news/model-context-protocol

by zellyn 2y ago

esafak 2y ago
How do they compare?
- cowpig 2y ago
  MCP is a protocol, and Anthropic has provided SDKs for implementing that protocol. In practice, I find the MCP protocol to be pretty great, but it leaves basically everything except the model parts out. I.e. MCP really only addresses how "agentic" systems interact with one another, nothing else. This SDK is trying to provide a bunch of code for implementing specific agent codebases. There are a bunch of open source ones already, so this is OpenAI throwing their hat in the ring. IMO this OpenAI release is kind of ecosystem-hostile in that they are directly competing with their users, in the same way that the GPT apps were.
  - esafak 2y ago
    Thank you. Which open source ones do you recommend?
    - cowpig 2y ago
      Here's a fairly comprehensive list: https://github.com/slavakurilyak/awesome-ai-agents https://github.com/slavakurilyak/awesome-ai-agents CrewAI is a popular VC-backed one, but two that I think are kind of interesting in the open source space are: https://github.com/i-am-bee/beeai-framework https://github.com/i-am-bee/beeai-framework https://github.com/lastmile-ai/mcp-agent https://github.com/lastmile-ai/mcp-agent ... However I think the vast majority of "AI Agent" use-cases in practice right now are actually just workflows, and imo dify is great for those: https://github.com/langgenius/dify https://github.com/langgenius/dify [edit] worth mentioning [langfuse](https://github.com/langfuse/langfuse https://github.com/langfuse/langfuse), which is more like a platform that addresses the observability/evals/prompt management piece of the puzzle as opposed to a full-on "agent framework". In practice I have not yet run into a case where I needed something like what OpenAI just released, nor crewAI etc (despite it feeling like those cases may be coming)
      - esafak 2y ago
        Thanks. mcp-agent lacks tests so I'm skipping it for now: https://github.com/lastmile-ai/mcp-agent/tree/main/tests https://github.com/lastmile-ai/mcp-agent/tree/main/tests I just realized BeeAI is IBM's project: https://www.ibm.com/think/news/beeai-open-source-multiagent https://www.ibm.com/think/news/beeai-open-source-multiagent I also see there's https://ai.pydantic.dev/ https://ai.pydantic.dev/ but it lacks MCP support. Finally, the MCP site maintains a nice client list: https://modelcontextprotocol.io/clients#feature-support-matrix https://modelcontextprotocol.io/clients#feature-support-matr...
  - TeeWEE 2y ago
    Correction: the MCP is a protocol for function calling and getting context into a model. It’s can run locally or over a network. It does not specify how “agentic” systems interact with each other. Depending on what you mean there.
    - cowpig 2y ago
      People are using the word "agentic" to mean this, I think. But yeah it's a dumb, overloaded primarily marketing word. I keep going back and forth on whether I should use the word "agentic"/"agent" at all
nilslice 2y ago
not implementing doesn't mean its not supported https://github.com/dylibso/mcpx-openai-node https://github.com/dylibso/mcpx-openai-node (this is for mcp.run tool calling with OpenAI models, not generic) but yes, it's the strongest anti-developer move to not directly support MCP. not surprised given OpenAI generally. but would be a very nice addition!
- benatkin 2y ago
  DeepSeek doesn’t seem to support it either FWIW. Maybe MCP is just an Anthropic thing.
  - nilslice 2y ago
    It is not only an Anthropic thing, and it works with any model that supports function calling, which DeepSeek did not when it first launched. That probably has changed since, but I haven't looked!
    - benatkin 2y ago
      I don't like it. I don't like the OpenAI API all that much either but at least it's lightweight. I think MCP would fit better on mcp.anthropic.com to go along with their email address mcp-support@anthropic.com at the bottom of https://modelcontextprotocol.io/ https://modelcontextprotocol.io/ I wish they'd done a smaller launch of it and gather feedback rather than announcing a supposed new standard which feels a lot like a wrapper. This here is atrocious https://github.com/modelcontextprotocol/quickstart-resources/tree/main/weather-server-python https://github.com/modelcontextprotocol/quickstart-resources... It includes this mcp PyPI package which pulls in a bunch of other PyPI dependencies. And for some reason they say "we recommend uv". How is that related to just setting up a tool for an AI to use? Compare that to this get weather example: https://api-docs.deepseek.com/guides/function_calling/ https://api-docs.deepseek.com/guides/function_calling/ It makes me not want to use Claude/Anthropic.
      - burningion 2y ago
knowaveragejoe 2y ago
You can (somewhat) bridge between them: https://github.com/SecretiveShell/MCP-Bridge https://github.com/SecretiveShell/MCP-Bridge
dgellow 2y ago
Do you have experience with MCP? If yes, what do you think of it?
- singularity2001 2y ago
  not OP but giving Claude access to local files / emails / database / terminal was … futuristic! (until I hit their stupid request limit)
  - consumer451 2y ago
    I have been using Windsurf+Sonnet for a couple months, and recently adding Supabase MCP was a total game changer for velocity. I can't believe I waited so long to configure that. Querying schema from prompt is great, but also being able to say "I cannot see the Create Project button on the projects list screen. Use MCP to see if user with email me@domain.com has the appropriate permissions" is just amazing.
- smcleod 2y ago
  It's great! Easy to work with, makes it quick to build tools and isnt over complicated.
thenameless7741 2y ago
it's mentioned in the main thread: https://nitter.net/athyuttamre/status/1899511569274347908 https://nitter.net/athyuttamre/status/1899511569274347908 > [Q] Does the Agents SDK support MCP connections? So can we easily give certain agents tools via MCP client server connections? > [A] You're able to define any tools you want, so you could implement MCP tools via function calling in short, we need to do some plumbing work. relevant issue in the repo: https://github.com/openai/openai-agents-python/issues/23 https://github.com/openai/openai-agents-python/issues/23
koconder 2y ago
100% but this is not the same thing, nor is this going to replace the agent SDK (or visa versa). Agents will always need some form of communication protocol, if we look at the world and agentic frameworks its a sea of logos and without some forms of open standards this would be hard. I'm currently at Comet and I have personally worked on MCP implementations AND have made some contributions to Agent SDK in the form of a native integration and improvement to test suite. - https://github.com/comet-ml/opik-mcp https://github.com/comet-ml/opik-mcp - https://github.com/openai/openai-agents-python/pull/91 https://github.com/openai/openai-agents-python/pull/91 Our recent integration shipped on day 1: - https://www.comet.com/docs/opik/tracing/integrations/openai_agents https://www.comet.com/docs/opik/tracing/integrations/openai_... I think the key to what OpenAI is pushing towards is simplicity for developers through very easy to use components. I won't comment on the strategy or pricing etc, but on first glance as a developer the simple modular approach and lack of bloat in their SDK is refreshing. Kudos to the team and people working on the edge to innovate and think differently in an already crowded and shifting landscape.

Notably not mentioned: Model Context Protocol https://www.anthropic.com/news/model-context-protocol https://www.anthropic.com/news/model-context-protocol

by zellyn 2y ago

Notably not mentioned: Model Context Protocol https://www.anthropic.com/news/model-context-protocol https://www.anthropic.com/news/model-context-protocol

esafak 2y ago

How do they compare?

cowpig 2y ago
MCP is a protocol, and Anthropic has provided SDKs for implementing that protocol. In practice, I find the MCP protocol to be pretty great, but it leaves basically everything except the model parts out. I.e. MCP really only addresses how "agentic" systems interact with one another, nothing else. This SDK is trying to provide a bunch of code for implementing specific agent codebases. There are a bunch of open source ones already, so this is OpenAI throwing their hat in the ring. IMO this OpenAI release is kind of ecosystem-hostile in that they are directly competing with their users, in the same way that the GPT apps were.
- esafak 2y ago
  Thank you. Which open source ones do you recommend?
  - cowpig 2y ago
    Here's a fairly comprehensive list: https://github.com/slavakurilyak/awesome-ai-agents https://github.com/slavakurilyak/awesome-ai-agents CrewAI is a popular VC-backed one, but two that I think are kind of interesting in the open source space are: https://github.com/i-am-bee/beeai-framework https://github.com/i-am-bee/beeai-framework https://github.com/lastmile-ai/mcp-agent https://github.com/lastmile-ai/mcp-agent ... However I think the vast majority of "AI Agent" use-cases in practice right now are actually just workflows, and imo dify is great for those: https://github.com/langgenius/dify https://github.com/langgenius/dify [edit] worth mentioning [langfuse](https://github.com/langfuse/langfuse https://github.com/langfuse/langfuse), which is more like a platform that addresses the observability/evals/prompt management piece of the puzzle as opposed to a full-on "agent framework". In practice I have not yet run into a case where I needed something like what OpenAI just released, nor crewAI etc (despite it feeling like those cases may be coming)
    - esafak 2y ago
      Thanks. mcp-agent lacks tests so I'm skipping it for now: https://github.com/lastmile-ai/mcp-agent/tree/main/tests https://github.com/lastmile-ai/mcp-agent/tree/main/tests I just realized BeeAI is IBM's project: https://www.ibm.com/think/news/beeai-open-source-multiagent https://www.ibm.com/think/news/beeai-open-source-multiagent I also see there's https://ai.pydantic.dev/ https://ai.pydantic.dev/ but it lacks MCP support. Finally, the MCP site maintains a nice client list: https://modelcontextprotocol.io/clients#feature-support-matrix https://modelcontextprotocol.io/clients#feature-support-matr...
- TeeWEE 2y ago
  Correction: the MCP is a protocol for function calling and getting context into a model. It’s can run locally or over a network. It does not specify how “agentic” systems interact with each other. Depending on what you mean there.
  - cowpig 2y ago
    People are using the word "agentic" to mean this, I think. But yeah it's a dumb, overloaded primarily marketing word. I keep going back and forth on whether I should use the word "agentic"/"agent" at all

nilslice 2y ago

not implementing doesn't mean its not supported https://github.com/dylibso/mcpx-openai-node https://github.com/dylibso/mcpx-openai-node (this is for mcp.run tool calling with OpenAI models, not generic) but yes, it's the strongest anti-developer move to not directly support MCP. not surprised given OpenAI generally. but would be a very nice addition!

benatkin 2y ago
DeepSeek doesn’t seem to support it either FWIW. Maybe MCP is just an Anthropic thing.
- nilslice 2y ago
  It is not only an Anthropic thing, and it works with any model that supports function calling, which DeepSeek did not when it first launched. That probably has changed since, but I haven't looked!
  - benatkin 2y ago
    I don't like it. I don't like the OpenAI API all that much either but at least it's lightweight. I think MCP would fit better on mcp.anthropic.com to go along with their email address mcp-support@anthropic.com at the bottom of https://modelcontextprotocol.io/ https://modelcontextprotocol.io/ I wish they'd done a smaller launch of it and gather feedback rather than announcing a supposed new standard which feels a lot like a wrapper. This here is atrocious https://github.com/modelcontextprotocol/quickstart-resources/tree/main/weather-server-python https://github.com/modelcontextprotocol/quickstart-resources... It includes this mcp PyPI package which pulls in a bunch of other PyPI dependencies. And for some reason they say "we recommend uv". How is that related to just setting up a tool for an AI to use? Compare that to this get weather example: https://api-docs.deepseek.com/guides/function_calling/ https://api-docs.deepseek.com/guides/function_calling/ It makes me not want to use Claude/Anthropic.
    - burningion 2y ago

knowaveragejoe 2y ago

You can (somewhat) bridge between them: https://github.com/SecretiveShell/MCP-Bridge https://github.com/SecretiveShell/MCP-Bridge

dgellow 2y ago

Do you have experience with MCP? If yes, what do you think of it?

singularity2001 2y ago
not OP but giving Claude access to local files / emails / database / terminal was … futuristic! (until I hit their stupid request limit)
- consumer451 2y ago
  I have been using Windsurf+Sonnet for a couple months, and recently adding Supabase MCP was a total game changer for velocity. I can't believe I waited so long to configure that. Querying schema from prompt is great, but also being able to say "I cannot see the Create Project button on the projects list screen. Use MCP to see if user with email me@domain.com has the appropriate permissions" is just amazing.
smcleod 2y ago
It's great! Easy to work with, makes it quick to build tools and isnt over complicated.

thenameless7741 2y ago

it's mentioned in the main thread: https://nitter.net/athyuttamre/status/1899511569274347908 https://nitter.net/athyuttamre/status/1899511569274347908 > [Q] Does the Agents SDK support MCP connections? So can we easily give certain agents tools via MCP client server connections? > [A] You're able to define any tools you want, so you could implement MCP tools via function calling in short, we need to do some plumbing work. relevant issue in the repo: https://github.com/openai/openai-agents-python/issues/23 https://github.com/openai/openai-agents-python/issues/23

koconder 2y ago

100% but this is not the same thing, nor is this going to replace the agent SDK (or visa versa). Agents will always need some form of communication protocol, if we look at the world and agentic frameworks its a sea of logos and without some forms of open standards this would be hard. I'm currently at Comet and I have personally worked on MCP implementations AND have made some contributions to Agent SDK in the form of a native integration and improvement to test suite. - https://github.com/comet-ml/opik-mcp https://github.com/comet-ml/opik-mcp - https://github.com/openai/openai-agents-python/pull/91 https://github.com/openai/openai-agents-python/pull/91 Our recent integration shipped on day 1: - https://www.comet.com/docs/opik/tracing/integrations/openai_agents https://www.comet.com/docs/opik/tracing/integrations/openai_... I think the key to what OpenAI is pushing towards is simplicity for developers through very easy to use components. I won't comment on the strategy or pricing etc, but on first glance as a developer the simple modular approach and lack of bloat in their SDK is refreshing. Kudos to the team and people working on the edge to innovate and think differently in an already crowded and shifting landscape.