5 ms·

Trump Says He Will Raise Canada Steel and Aluminum Tariffs to 50%

60 points by pera 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
taeric 2y ago
At what point does the 51st state stuff raise concerns in Republicans!? Is there any hope in that direction? Or is a self inflicted economic crash a foregone thing, at this point?
- jjkaczor 2y ago
  Republicans want this, and are afraid - not necessarily of Trump and the administration - but their constituents.
  - taeric 2y ago
    They want to be in charge. But even now that they are, they can't control their own leadership's ambition to be written about. It is truly maddening how they maintain the claim on the party of values. What would it take to get them to show some?
    - red-iron-pine 2y ago
      guns
      - jjkaczor 2y ago
        They have plenty - but the only place that they seem to regularly exercise their "2A rights" is in schools...
- bediger4000 2y ago
  Why only 1 extra state? And will we up the number of US Representatives to accommodate?
  - taeric 2y ago
    Regardless on the details, it is a ludicrous talking point that shows no respect to a large ally. Quite the contrary. It makes no sense and serves absolutely no purpose. At best, it betrays a severe lack of understanding on several topics. Yet here we are having to give it time it does not deserve.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      It is attempting to launder and manufacturer consent and tolerance for the idea. Edit: You can think of it as testing the appetite for moving the Overton Window [1] on the subject. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
      - swat535 2y ago
        Now in Canada we have people driving around with US flags and TRUMP stickers on their cars.. there are several communities that have formed backing this idea, in seeing slogans such as “Free Alberta” and “Alberta 51” as well as an ongoing narrative that Canada is no longer a nation and we have no more borders. If Trunps plans was to disrupt Canadians internal politics, he has certainly succeeded. Additioanllly the Liberal party had leveraged this whole thing to distract people from its own failures during critical election time by framing US as our enemy and attempting to win votes against conswervatives. The whole situation is unhinged.
    - red-iron-pine 2y ago
      wag the dog distraction while they plunder the US Fed Gov and tank the economy. Putin gets a neutered US military-political machine, while US oligarchs, who've seen insane, unprecedented growth in the last 5 years, can then just buy up everything on the cheap. everyone else can suck it.
    - jjkaczor 2y ago
      It makes perfect sense when you use the logic of expansion and imperialism - this is the same type of talk that Putin has used for more than a decade with Ukraine, and the same type of speech that a certain German leader used about Austria many decades ago.
- awnird 2y ago
  [flagged]
mmastrac 2y ago
If Trump had a single strategic idea, he's crazy enough that he could probably play his big hand to get any concessions he wants. Unfortunately, he's got a single tool and he thinks that waving it at every problem will help him win (he won't) what he perceives as a zero-sum game (it isn't). He holds a lot of cards, but he's making the mistake of thinking he holds all of them. It'll be painful for us former US allies, but it's going to be fatal for the future of the US. This is nothing but a Farquaadian bargain for America.
- catlover76 2y ago
  [dead]
- adt 2y ago
  Great reference! >Lord Farquaad's appearance [in the film Shrek] may be inspired by Michael Eisner, the then-CEO of The Walt Disney Company, owing to producer Jeffrey Katzenberg's animosity toward his former employer. Others had noticed a resemblance to Richard III of England. The name Farquaad is thought to be a way to get away with saying "fuckwad" in a family-friendly film. Farquaad happens to be similar to the surname of film animator Mark Farquhar. Some think Farquaad was based on the 7th US President, Andrew Jackson, as he forced a group from their land (Jackson signed the Indian Removal Act in 1830). https://dreamworks.fandom.com/wiki/Lord_Farquaad https://dreamworks.fandom.com/wiki/Lord_Farquaad
  - therealpygon 2y ago
    But a useless summation when everyone has internet. To clarify, I mean that it was lot of words with no meaning behind why you particularly think it was a “good reference”.
blibble 2y ago
if the US stock market falls further, is there a point at which congress will consider doing something about it?
- hypeatei 2y ago
  "do something" as in impeachment? Absolutely not. If Dems sweep in the midterms, maybe. He has sycophants everywhere now, even in Congress.
  - mdhb 2y ago
    How exactly are you going to be able to trust elections at this point? I don’t mean as some kind of conspiracy theorist but in a very practical sense that I can’t think of any meaningful controls or external oversight mechanisms that I could point to. They were literally one of the very first things he got rid of and now all of the voting infrastructure is controlled at the state level by partisans who have shown loudly and clearly that they have no interest in playing fair. Putting all of your eggs in the free and fair elections category is genuinely not a credible plan at this point.
    - Aloisius 2y ago
      We have election monitors and real-time tabulation of results at precincts (mostly). Some states have recounts of a random subset of ballots with election monitors to verify results. And of course, the Federal government isn't involved in the logistics of voting at all. It's run by thousands of local governments.
      - mdhb 2y ago
        You are repeating back the precise problem as though it were a solution. That’s exactly what makes it extremely likely that there will be problems
        therealpygon 2y ago
WastedCucumber 2y ago
https://archive.ph/1J2L6 https://archive.ph/1J2L6
- andrewinardeer 2y ago
  This doesn't appear to be the article that is linked?
  - tim333 2y ago
    They seem to have rewritten the article on the same url.
hnpolicestate 2y ago
Here's the problem. Western liberal leaders aren't leaders but career ladder climbers. Their new PM. Oxford grad, Goldman Sachs banker. They are resume elitists who don't have the risk taking spirit to protect their countries sovereignty. If I were PM of Canada I would publicly announce that Canada would have Chinese and Russian nuclear missile silos on Canadian soil before becoming an American state.
- maxglute 2y ago
  TBH why would China or Russia care? US absorbing Canada justifies all current and future land grabs. Carney is interim leader, but really who can Canadians put in charge without backfiring. At this point, easier to put a hot chick in office and have her seduce Barron Trump and deal with family politics than geopolitics.
  - red-iron-pine 2y ago
    ^ this is the level of HN discourse these days
    - maxglute 2y ago
      You're talking about Canada nuclearizing in US backyard which frankly is more delulu discourse than felating Trump to buy time.
      - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
        A French nuclear submarine did a surprise visit in Halifax today.
        sillywalk 2y ago
        It's an attack sub, it doesn't carry any nuclear weapons.
        2y ago
r00fus 2y ago
For those who (like me) were bewildered by the claptrap coming out of Trumps mouth regarding 51st state and "owning Greenland", I listened to a podcast that made the case that: a) since China has essentially supplanted the WorldBank/IMF in providing loans to a lot of the "global south" specifically Africa b) and since the US Empire essentially needs to keep growing in order to maintain solvent c) and Russia/China are really bullish on the Northern sea routes - they have icebreakers all ready to open channels in an already weakened polar ice Suddenly Canada and Greenland have outsized geopolitical importance as those might become trade hubs in a climate changed world.
- kccoder 2y ago
  Or, easily aggrieved, petulant chaos monkey with a penchant for bullying flings poo because...reasons.
  - tim333 2y ago
    That seems to correlate better with observational evidence.
- red-iron-pine 2y ago
  Russia has been planning for utilizing arctic routes for a while now. there was at least one Russian oligarch (Igor Sechin of Rosneft) essentially championing global warming for that reason.
- locallost 2y ago
  So basically don't look up and planing to mine a comet about to destroy the Earth. There won't be any trade in a climate changed world.
  - dukeyukey 2y ago
    Why not?
- yongjik 2y ago
  That sounds like sanewashing Trump. Just consider this: if Greenland has a such a strategic importance to the US, all the US had to do is to ask Denmark nicely to house a dozen more US military bases there, and Denmark (pre-Trump) would've been happy to follow along. All Trump did was to make sure that Greenland will not see another US base in the near future. Which would, when you think about it, make Russia quite happy if Greenland is strategically important.
tim333 2y ago
Mr Trump added, "the only thing that makes sense is for Canada to become our cherished Fifty First State. This would make all Tariffs, and everything else, totally disappear." - bbc version of the story https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/c99n7gmkmzzo https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/c99n7gmkmzzo
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  Yeah. That would give Canada two senators, and a large number of representatives. And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be Republicans. Are you really sure you want that, Mr. Trump?
  - jjkaczor 2y ago
    ... and considering we have one Province that is a very distinct culture (Quebec), plus a very large indigenous territory (Nunavut) - I think that things would fracture immediately...
colinprince 2y ago
"Ontario suspending 25% surcharge on provincially generated electricity purchased by U.S. states" https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/1.7480234 https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/1.7480234
- jjkaczor 2y ago
  Yeah, our provincial Premier talks a tough-game, but he is always quick to walk things back. Now he gets to travel to DC and "negotiate", with one of Trump's underlings - the Premier does not have the legal mandate to negotiate a federal agreement (USMCA) - however, a federal minister is also attending - but until our new Prime Minister fully takes on the role and our parliament comes back in session, doubtful they will do anything. We will see what happens Thursday or Friday - other schools of thought may indicate the Doug (Ontario Premier) and federal leadership had a talk to not provoke the bear any further - as these "51st state" comment and directions from Trump are escalating.
Balgair 2y ago
It's a bit glib, but too good to not share. We're experiencing the Katy Parry doctrine: 'Cause you're hot, then you're cold You're yes, then you're no You're in, then you're out You're up, then you're down You're wrong when it's right It's black and it's white We fight, we break up We kiss, we make up
Aloisius 2y ago
Looks like WSJ edited the article. It's now: Trump Drops Threat to Double New Tariffs on Canadian Steel and Aluminum

60 points by pera 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

At what point does the 51st state stuff raise concerns in Republicans!? Is there any hope in that direction? Or is a self inflicted economic crash a foregone thing, at this point?

jjkaczor 2y ago
Republicans want this, and are afraid - not necessarily of Trump and the administration - but their constituents.
- taeric 2y ago
  They want to be in charge. But even now that they are, they can't control their own leadership's ambition to be written about. It is truly maddening how they maintain the claim on the party of values. What would it take to get them to show some?
  - red-iron-pine 2y ago
    guns
    - jjkaczor 2y ago
      They have plenty - but the only place that they seem to regularly exercise their "2A rights" is in schools...
bediger4000 2y ago
Why only 1 extra state? And will we up the number of US Representatives to accommodate?
- taeric 2y ago
  Regardless on the details, it is a ludicrous talking point that shows no respect to a large ally. Quite the contrary. It makes no sense and serves absolutely no purpose. At best, it betrays a severe lack of understanding on several topics. Yet here we are having to give it time it does not deserve.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    It is attempting to launder and manufacturer consent and tolerance for the idea. Edit: You can think of it as testing the appetite for moving the Overton Window [1] on the subject. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
    - swat535 2y ago
      Now in Canada we have people driving around with US flags and TRUMP stickers on their cars.. there are several communities that have formed backing this idea, in seeing slogans such as “Free Alberta” and “Alberta 51” as well as an ongoing narrative that Canada is no longer a nation and we have no more borders. If Trunps plans was to disrupt Canadians internal politics, he has certainly succeeded. Additioanllly the Liberal party had leveraged this whole thing to distract people from its own failures during critical election time by framing US as our enemy and attempting to win votes against conswervatives. The whole situation is unhinged.
  - red-iron-pine 2y ago
    wag the dog distraction while they plunder the US Fed Gov and tank the economy. Putin gets a neutered US military-political machine, while US oligarchs, who've seen insane, unprecedented growth in the last 5 years, can then just buy up everything on the cheap. everyone else can suck it.
  - jjkaczor 2y ago
    It makes perfect sense when you use the logic of expansion and imperialism - this is the same type of talk that Putin has used for more than a decade with Ukraine, and the same type of speech that a certain German leader used about Austria many decades ago.
awnird 2y ago
[flagged]

mmastrac 2y ago

If Trump had a single strategic idea, he's crazy enough that he could probably play his big hand to get any concessions he wants. Unfortunately, he's got a single tool and he thinks that waving it at every problem will help him win (he won't) what he perceives as a zero-sum game (it isn't). He holds a lot of cards, but he's making the mistake of thinking he holds all of them. It'll be painful for us former US allies, but it's going to be fatal for the future of the US. This is nothing but a Farquaadian bargain for America.

catlover76 2y ago
[dead]
adt 2y ago
Great reference! >Lord Farquaad's appearance [in the film Shrek] may be inspired by Michael Eisner, the then-CEO of The Walt Disney Company, owing to producer Jeffrey Katzenberg's animosity toward his former employer. Others had noticed a resemblance to Richard III of England. The name Farquaad is thought to be a way to get away with saying "fuckwad" in a family-friendly film. Farquaad happens to be similar to the surname of film animator Mark Farquhar. Some think Farquaad was based on the 7th US President, Andrew Jackson, as he forced a group from their land (Jackson signed the Indian Removal Act in 1830). https://dreamworks.fandom.com/wiki/Lord_Farquaad https://dreamworks.fandom.com/wiki/Lord_Farquaad
- therealpygon 2y ago
  But a useless summation when everyone has internet. To clarify, I mean that it was lot of words with no meaning behind why you particularly think it was a “good reference”.

blibble 2y ago

if the US stock market falls further, is there a point at which congress will consider doing something about it?

hypeatei 2y ago
"do something" as in impeachment? Absolutely not. If Dems sweep in the midterms, maybe. He has sycophants everywhere now, even in Congress.
- mdhb 2y ago
  How exactly are you going to be able to trust elections at this point? I don’t mean as some kind of conspiracy theorist but in a very practical sense that I can’t think of any meaningful controls or external oversight mechanisms that I could point to. They were literally one of the very first things he got rid of and now all of the voting infrastructure is controlled at the state level by partisans who have shown loudly and clearly that they have no interest in playing fair. Putting all of your eggs in the free and fair elections category is genuinely not a credible plan at this point.
  - Aloisius 2y ago
    We have election monitors and real-time tabulation of results at precincts (mostly). Some states have recounts of a random subset of ballots with election monitors to verify results. And of course, the Federal government isn't involved in the logistics of voting at all. It's run by thousands of local governments.
    - mdhb 2y ago
      You are repeating back the precise problem as though it were a solution. That’s exactly what makes it extremely likely that there will be problems
      - therealpygon 2y ago

WastedCucumber 2y ago

https://archive.ph/1J2L6 https://archive.ph/1J2L6

andrewinardeer 2y ago
This doesn't appear to be the article that is linked?
- tim333 2y ago
  They seem to have rewritten the article on the same url.

hnpolicestate 2y ago

Here's the problem. Western liberal leaders aren't leaders but career ladder climbers. Their new PM. Oxford grad, Goldman Sachs banker. They are resume elitists who don't have the risk taking spirit to protect their countries sovereignty. If I were PM of Canada I would publicly announce that Canada would have Chinese and Russian nuclear missile silos on Canadian soil before becoming an American state.

maxglute 2y ago
TBH why would China or Russia care? US absorbing Canada justifies all current and future land grabs. Carney is interim leader, but really who can Canadians put in charge without backfiring. At this point, easier to put a hot chick in office and have her seduce Barron Trump and deal with family politics than geopolitics.
- red-iron-pine 2y ago
  ^ this is the level of HN discourse these days
  - maxglute 2y ago
    You're talking about Canada nuclearizing in US backyard which frankly is more delulu discourse than felating Trump to buy time.
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      A French nuclear submarine did a surprise visit in Halifax today.
      - sillywalk 2y ago
        It's an attack sub, it doesn't carry any nuclear weapons.
        2y ago

r00fus 2y ago

For those who (like me) were bewildered by the claptrap coming out of Trumps mouth regarding 51st state and "owning Greenland", I listened to a podcast that made the case that: a) since China has essentially supplanted the WorldBank/IMF in providing loans to a lot of the "global south" specifically Africa b) and since the US Empire essentially needs to keep growing in order to maintain solvent c) and Russia/China are really bullish on the Northern sea routes - they have icebreakers all ready to open channels in an already weakened polar ice Suddenly Canada and Greenland have outsized geopolitical importance as those might become trade hubs in a climate changed world.

kccoder 2y ago
Or, easily aggrieved, petulant chaos monkey with a penchant for bullying flings poo because...reasons.
- tim333 2y ago
  That seems to correlate better with observational evidence.
red-iron-pine 2y ago
Russia has been planning for utilizing arctic routes for a while now. there was at least one Russian oligarch (Igor Sechin of Rosneft) essentially championing global warming for that reason.
locallost 2y ago
So basically don't look up and planing to mine a comet about to destroy the Earth. There won't be any trade in a climate changed world.
- dukeyukey 2y ago
  Why not?
yongjik 2y ago
That sounds like sanewashing Trump. Just consider this: if Greenland has a such a strategic importance to the US, all the US had to do is to ask Denmark nicely to house a dozen more US military bases there, and Denmark (pre-Trump) would've been happy to follow along. All Trump did was to make sure that Greenland will not see another US base in the near future. Which would, when you think about it, make Russia quite happy if Greenland is strategically important.

tim333 2y ago

Mr Trump added, "the only thing that makes sense is for Canada to become our cherished Fifty First State. This would make all Tariffs, and everything else, totally disappear." - bbc version of the story https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/c99n7gmkmzzo https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/c99n7gmkmzzo

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
Yeah. That would give Canada two senators, and a large number of representatives. And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be Republicans. Are you really sure you want that, Mr. Trump?
- jjkaczor 2y ago
  ... and considering we have one Province that is a very distinct culture (Quebec), plus a very large indigenous territory (Nunavut) - I think that things would fracture immediately...

colinprince 2y ago

"Ontario suspending 25% surcharge on provincially generated electricity purchased by U.S. states" https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/1.7480234 https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/1.7480234

jjkaczor 2y ago
Yeah, our provincial Premier talks a tough-game, but he is always quick to walk things back. Now he gets to travel to DC and "negotiate", with one of Trump's underlings - the Premier does not have the legal mandate to negotiate a federal agreement (USMCA) - however, a federal minister is also attending - but until our new Prime Minister fully takes on the role and our parliament comes back in session, doubtful they will do anything. We will see what happens Thursday or Friday - other schools of thought may indicate the Doug (Ontario Premier) and federal leadership had a talk to not provoke the bear any further - as these "51st state" comment and directions from Trump are escalating.

Balgair 2y ago

It's a bit glib, but too good to not share. We're experiencing the Katy Parry doctrine: 'Cause you're hot, then you're cold You're yes, then you're no You're in, then you're out You're up, then you're down You're wrong when it's right It's black and it's white We fight, we break up We kiss, we make up

Aloisius 2y ago

Looks like WSJ edited the article. It's now: Trump Drops Threat to Double New Tariffs on Canadian Steel and Aluminum