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>What did voters have to see in Harris' team for that to happen? They're clearly doing something wrong. Perhaps there is clearly something wrong with the voter

>What did voters have to see in Harris' team for that to happen? They're clearly doing something wrong. Perhaps there is clearly something wrong with the voters to opt for a > racist, homophobic, sexist, rapist, felonic avatar of Hitler

roenxi 2y ago
Well sure, but if that is the attitude they're not going to bother hiring good pollsters. Pollsters are going to do what, come back and explain that the Devil himself is outpolling your campaign. Now what? They were already catastrophising as hard as they could and the entire English speaking world knows how the US Dems feel about Trump. A majority (although admittedly a slim one) of voters just don't believe them. Good pollsters would have been a waste of money in that environment and I'm sure the Harris campaign was judiciously watching their budget.
- throwway120385 2y ago
  What's surprising to me is how many ex government employees they're able to find who voted for Trump and just didn't think they would get downsized because they're actually doing what they're supposed to be doing. I think it's interesting that Trump consistently gets the benefit of the doubt even in cases where the people he puts in positions of power pretty clearly intended to demoralize people by firing them.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-white-man/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-wh... > If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." This quote doesn’t apply just to white men, or even just men.
nosianu 2y ago
Riiiight.... https://youtu.be/eVddGSTjEd0?t=51 https://youtu.be/eVddGSTjEd0?t=51 Or maybe the explanation is that everybody behaved "responsibly" but they never got the changes they wanted, and chances for anything different looked more and more bleak. Why do you treat this like a single event? It is not. Lots of prior experiences fed into this. For example, as bad as this is for us (I'm German, but I lived many years in the US once), for Europe I think it is good what is happening. Now we are forced to move and mature. Crisis are not always bad. The personalities involved this time make it especially hard to look at the whole thing calmly. I admit I have a harder time seeing what the US may get out of this except for the shakeup as a general chance. However, too much is concentrated on the personalities, and, like you did, on blaming everybody. How about Democrats look what they did wrong? I mean, other than reverting to "we didn't think the voters would be so stupid", in which case I have little hope for them to get anything positive out of this.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Democrats’ mistake was putting up a woman in a leadership popularity contest, even after the previous woman lost to the same > racist, homophobic, sexist, rapist, felonic avatar of Hitler And a black woman at that, to further reduce Democrats’ chances. I’m basing this on the anecdotal evidence from many people who I spoke to, who have zero problem telling me a woman cannot be a leader. Including my own non white immigrant grandmother, who grew up without rights. Many people don’t like to see people of a perceived lower socioeconomic status pass them up. It makes themselves feel inferior.
  - zaphar 2y ago
    I'll counter your anecdotal experience with my own. I can count on one hand the number of people I know well who voted against Harris because of her gender or color. And I live in the rural south. The simple truth is that Harris failed to make a compelling case to enough of the nation in enough of the right states to win. The reasons for that failure are going to be complex and varied depending on area. Any attempt to pin it on a single trait or activity is going to be somewhat wrong. This is way too nuanced a topic for "She lost because she was a black woman" to be at all useful.
andrepd 2y ago
Principal Skinner "am I so out of touch" meme
- juped 2y ago
  Bertolt Brecht "dissolving the people and electing another" quote
seanw444 2y ago
> Hitler Please keep using the same tired comparisons. It helps a lot.
4bpp 2y ago
A quip (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_L%C3%B6sung https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_L%C3%B6sung) from a more innocent era comes to mind- > Would it not in that case / Be simpler for the government / To dissolve the people / And elect another?

roenxi 2y ago

Well sure, but if that is the attitude they're not going to bother hiring good pollsters. Pollsters are going to do what, come back and explain that the Devil himself is outpolling your campaign. Now what? They were already catastrophising as hard as they could and the entire English speaking world knows how the US Dems feel about Trump. A majority (although admittedly a slim one) of voters just don't believe them. Good pollsters would have been a waste of money in that environment and I'm sure the Harris campaign was judiciously watching their budget.

throwway120385 2y ago
What's surprising to me is how many ex government employees they're able to find who voted for Trump and just didn't think they would get downsized because they're actually doing what they're supposed to be doing. I think it's interesting that Trump consistently gets the benefit of the doubt even in cases where the people he puts in positions of power pretty clearly intended to demoralize people by firing them.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-white-man/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-wh... > If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." This quote doesn’t apply just to white men, or even just men.

nosianu 2y ago

Riiiight.... https://youtu.be/eVddGSTjEd0?t=51 https://youtu.be/eVddGSTjEd0?t=51 Or maybe the explanation is that everybody behaved "responsibly" but they never got the changes they wanted, and chances for anything different looked more and more bleak. Why do you treat this like a single event? It is not. Lots of prior experiences fed into this. For example, as bad as this is for us (I'm German, but I lived many years in the US once), for Europe I think it is good what is happening. Now we are forced to move and mature. Crisis are not always bad. The personalities involved this time make it especially hard to look at the whole thing calmly. I admit I have a harder time seeing what the US may get out of this except for the shakeup as a general chance. However, too much is concentrated on the personalities, and, like you did, on blaming everybody. How about Democrats look what they did wrong? I mean, other than reverting to "we didn't think the voters would be so stupid", in which case I have little hope for them to get anything positive out of this.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
Democrats’ mistake was putting up a woman in a leadership popularity contest, even after the previous woman lost to the same > racist, homophobic, sexist, rapist, felonic avatar of Hitler And a black woman at that, to further reduce Democrats’ chances. I’m basing this on the anecdotal evidence from many people who I spoke to, who have zero problem telling me a woman cannot be a leader. Including my own non white immigrant grandmother, who grew up without rights. Many people don’t like to see people of a perceived lower socioeconomic status pass them up. It makes themselves feel inferior.
- zaphar 2y ago
  I'll counter your anecdotal experience with my own. I can count on one hand the number of people I know well who voted against Harris because of her gender or color. And I live in the rural south. The simple truth is that Harris failed to make a compelling case to enough of the nation in enough of the right states to win. The reasons for that failure are going to be complex and varied depending on area. Any attempt to pin it on a single trait or activity is going to be somewhat wrong. This is way too nuanced a topic for "She lost because she was a black woman" to be at all useful.

andrepd 2y ago

Principal Skinner "am I so out of touch" meme

juped 2y ago
Bertolt Brecht "dissolving the people and electing another" quote

seanw444 2y ago

> Hitler Please keep using the same tired comparisons. It helps a lot.

4bpp 2y ago

A quip (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_L%C3%B6sung https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_L%C3%B6sung) from a more innocent era comes to mind- > Would it not in that case / Be simpler for the government / To dissolve the people / And elect another?