3 ms·

I think it's good. K8s is well packaged (these days) and quite discoverable. I agree it's likely to throw up some problems, but it's great that it's possible.

TZubiri 2y ago
I'll be honest, never learned it, worked up from network protocols, reached docker in terms of virtualization, and of course OS fundamentals. But even in those 3 areas I haven't exhausted all the knowledge and features available. So I'm just skeptical when someone is using k8s and hasn't mastered the fundamentals. How do they know whether they should be using a high level k8 feature or a low level os feature? Happened with docker a lot to me when I didn't know better, I was learning how to set memory limits on containers and reset policies instead of learning to do it on the OS level.
- Operyl 2y ago
  > reached docker in terms of virtualization Except docker, on its own without something else in the stack, isn't Virtualization.
  - TZubiri 2y ago
    Not arguing this again, go edit the wikipedia article if you are so confident
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    Docker is kernel virtualisation. Are you thinking of OS virtualisation, like a VM?
    - Timber-6539 2y ago
      Virtualization usually refers to OS/ device emulation in software. Docker uses kernel namespaces which is an entirely unrelated feature.
      - TZubiri 2y ago
        I find it funny how some obtuse devs are unable to use abstraction in software of all things.
    - xrisk 2y ago
      Docker does not virtualize the kernel, in fact the kernel version “inside” Docker is the same as the host.
    - anonfordays 2y ago
      Docker is OS-level virtualization. VMs are hardware virtualization. Different layers.
      - Spivak 2y ago
        That isn't even true, you share your host kernel. There are parts of the kernel that aren't namespaced as well. The kernel keyring is probably the big one.
        anonfordays 2y ago
        >That isn't even true You are incorrect, this is true: "OS-level virtualization is an operating system (OS) virtualization paradigm in which the kernel allows the existence of multiple isolated user space instances, including containers (LXC, Solaris Containers, AIX WPARs, HP-UX SRP Containers, Docker, Podman)..."[0]. >you share your host kernel Kernel != OS >There are parts of the kernel that aren't namespaced as well. The kernel keyring is probably the big one. Immaterial. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-level_virtualization https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-level_virtualization
        Spivak 2y ago
        You can call it what you want but absolutely no one considers chroot virtualization in any meaningful sense. Nothing is being virtualized, containers are just regular processes on the host system. "OS Virtualization" != "OS" "Virtualization"
        TZubiri 2y ago
        1st of all yes, many people consider not only chroot to be virtualization (of the file system). Yes it is arguable as it is the birth of lightweight virtualization. But you were wrong in saying no one does. https://papers.freebsd.org/2000/phk-jails/ https://papers.freebsd.org/2000/phk-jails/ https://youtu.be/hgN8pCMLI2U?si=CH-Fpyj16bEWDZzc https://youtu.be/hgN8pCMLI2U?si=CH-Fpyj16bEWDZzc 2nd containers go farther and virtualize network, and other resources.
- vegarde 2y ago
  OP here. Of course I haven't mastered he fundamentals of K8s yet, I am just beginning to learn it. Like you, I have been using docker for years, and to be honest it served me very well - and would probably continue to do so. But as a geek, I have a natural curiosity, sometimes just the curiosity of whether or not something can be done, and how it works, is enough justifications to do it. As you probably read, this is in my home services. Which is where I am free to do exactly these experiments before I know the inns and outs of it. Some of what I wrote in the blog post, I have already ditched. I am no longer hardcoding the ipv6 addresses from the pools, for example, but I still need to change my pool ip addresses if my ISP changes the range. I am not sure if my way is the correct one. I could do it manually, but what's the fun in that ? There will be more blog posts as I learn, you be sure (there already is). I have more coming up, but one of my current projects will take a bit of time, as I have decided that writing a Unifi Operator for managing firewall rules is a better way to do it :) Now, for home use? Whoever does that, write K8s Operators? If you're on hacker news then you should understand that the goal isn't necessarily the result, it's the learning experience.

TZubiri 2y ago

I'll be honest, never learned it, worked up from network protocols, reached docker in terms of virtualization, and of course OS fundamentals. But even in those 3 areas I haven't exhausted all the knowledge and features available. So I'm just skeptical when someone is using k8s and hasn't mastered the fundamentals. How do they know whether they should be using a high level k8 feature or a low level os feature? Happened with docker a lot to me when I didn't know better, I was learning how to set memory limits on containers and reset policies instead of learning to do it on the OS level.

Operyl 2y ago
> reached docker in terms of virtualization Except docker, on its own without something else in the stack, isn't Virtualization.
- TZubiri 2y ago
  Not arguing this again, go edit the wikipedia article if you are so confident
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  Docker is kernel virtualisation. Are you thinking of OS virtualisation, like a VM?
  - Timber-6539 2y ago
    Virtualization usually refers to OS/ device emulation in software. Docker uses kernel namespaces which is an entirely unrelated feature.
    - TZubiri 2y ago
      I find it funny how some obtuse devs are unable to use abstraction in software of all things.
  - xrisk 2y ago
    Docker does not virtualize the kernel, in fact the kernel version “inside” Docker is the same as the host.
  - anonfordays 2y ago
    Docker is OS-level virtualization. VMs are hardware virtualization. Different layers.
    - Spivak 2y ago
      That isn't even true, you share your host kernel. There are parts of the kernel that aren't namespaced as well. The kernel keyring is probably the big one.
      - anonfordays 2y ago
        >That isn't even true You are incorrect, this is true: "OS-level virtualization is an operating system (OS) virtualization paradigm in which the kernel allows the existence of multiple isolated user space instances, including containers (LXC, Solaris Containers, AIX WPARs, HP-UX SRP Containers, Docker, Podman)..."[0]. >you share your host kernel Kernel != OS >There are parts of the kernel that aren't namespaced as well. The kernel keyring is probably the big one. Immaterial. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-level_virtualization https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-level_virtualization
        Spivak 2y ago
        You can call it what you want but absolutely no one considers chroot virtualization in any meaningful sense. Nothing is being virtualized, containers are just regular processes on the host system. "OS Virtualization" != "OS" "Virtualization"
        TZubiri 2y ago
        1st of all yes, many people consider not only chroot to be virtualization (of the file system). Yes it is arguable as it is the birth of lightweight virtualization. But you were wrong in saying no one does. https://papers.freebsd.org/2000/phk-jails/ https://papers.freebsd.org/2000/phk-jails/ https://youtu.be/hgN8pCMLI2U?si=CH-Fpyj16bEWDZzc https://youtu.be/hgN8pCMLI2U?si=CH-Fpyj16bEWDZzc 2nd containers go farther and virtualize network, and other resources.
vegarde 2y ago
OP here. Of course I haven't mastered he fundamentals of K8s yet, I am just beginning to learn it. Like you, I have been using docker for years, and to be honest it served me very well - and would probably continue to do so. But as a geek, I have a natural curiosity, sometimes just the curiosity of whether or not something can be done, and how it works, is enough justifications to do it. As you probably read, this is in my home services. Which is where I am free to do exactly these experiments before I know the inns and outs of it. Some of what I wrote in the blog post, I have already ditched. I am no longer hardcoding the ipv6 addresses from the pools, for example, but I still need to change my pool ip addresses if my ISP changes the range. I am not sure if my way is the correct one. I could do it manually, but what's the fun in that ? There will be more blog posts as I learn, you be sure (there already is). I have more coming up, but one of my current projects will take a bit of time, as I have decided that writing a Unifi Operator for managing firewall rules is a better way to do it :) Now, for home use? Whoever does that, write K8s Operators? If you're on hacker news then you should understand that the goal isn't necessarily the result, it's the learning experience.