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All people involved have jurisdiction on how to apply the law. Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. It creates yet another person who will

All people involved have jurisdiction on how to apply the law. Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. It creates yet another person who will come to rightfully hate the US, gets bad press affecting tourism and business, and for what? For a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences. Enforce the law, sure, whatever, but the jumpsuit and 10 days in a detention center are barbaric and unnecessary. There's a reason this wouldn't have happened before a wannabe dictator was in power.

jonnybgood 2y ago
> Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. Should they have put her on house arrest in a hotel room? She doesn't deserve special privileges. A huge swath of the US population would be adamantly against her being treated special.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  Do you know that mixed race marriage did not gain majority support in the USA until 1995? Sometimes it is right to not give a fuck about what "a huge swath of the US population thinks". And in this case, it's not about "special priviledges", it's about the ridiculousness of this process being applied to anyone in her circumstances.
  - gggtttkkk88 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
      I wasn't born in the USA.
      - gggtttkkk88 2y ago
        [flagged]
        PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
        My ancestors (going back to the 1400s) were the living embodiment of "the mutt mindset", only rooted in northern Europe. Someone who didn't want to fight in the Hugenot wars ran off to England, and the fucking began...
        gggtttkkk88 2y ago
        [flagged]
  - casey2 2y ago
    What people say on polls and reality are very different. Most people in all countries don't support mixed race marriage.
- kennysoona 2y ago
  Again, discretion is a thing.
  - lttlrck 2y ago
    Discretion rubs both ways. Just because it didn't happen to your/our preference this time doesn't mean it never happens.
    - kennysoona 2y ago
      I don't see what point you're trying to make here. The point was discretion should have been used this care regardless of other times it has been.
necovek 2y ago
I agree that the conditions are far from ideal, but if that's how US generally deals with people waiting for their court dates, it's what it is. This does not mean US should not work to improve those conditions for everyone — I don't see a difference between a Mexican person overstaying or her overstaying from the angle of immigration clerks — it should! US should also certainly adapt laws to avoid any "detention" for people open to "voluntary deportation". In my non-EU European country, arbitrary application of laws is exactly what's the issue. This leads to rampant corruption and society going crazy (it's not about being a good citizen, it's about not getting caught being a bad one).
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  > but if that's how US generally deals with people waiting for their court dates, it's what it is. Historically, (as in: during periods where Trump is not president) it is not.
  - necovek 2y ago
    It did happen before as well: see above comment I made about my IT colleague being drilled for hours when they said they were coming in "for work" instead of "for a business trip". If you've not passed US border control as a foreigner, you really have no idea of what a pleasant experience it... is not.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
      My point was not that "being drilled" did not happen. Being locked up in a detention center for days (and in solitary confinement in at least one recent case) for this sort of violation would have been rare to non-existent. I crossed the US border many times as a foreigner, although I am now a citizen. The easiest kind of foreigner though - white, anglo, male, middle class. Even those qualifications don't seem like enough to stop the absurd responses from ICE anymore, though.
      - necovek 2y ago
gruez 2y ago
>All people involved have jurisdiction on how to apply the law. Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. So what are you proposing? Giving someone from an European country better treatment than someone from South America? Sounds like racism/white privilege to me. >It creates yet another person who will come to rightfully hate the US, gets bad press affecting tourism and business, and for what? For a girl that loved the US South Americans are fleeing prosecution from drug gangs or economic devastation. That's a far stronger justification than some girl who "loved the US" and wants to backpack for a few months. >misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences. As other people have mentioned, it's basically plastered everywhere during the ESTA process that you can't work. "misinterpreted or misunderstood" seems like a stretch.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  > Giving someone from an European country better treatment than someone from South America? Sounds like racism/white privilege to me. No, the proposal is to treat all such cases equivalently, regardless of national origin. That means no more prison/orange jump suit/inacessibility for Europeans or people from South America who screw up their visa conditions.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >No, the proposal is to treat all such cases equivalently, regardless of national origin. Your description of "a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences" might not have any explicit racial/ethnic element, but it's pretty obvious you're selecting for a certain demographic when you're using criteria like that. Or are you arguing that nobody should be treated that way? In which case why not just say something like "nobody should be treated this way", instead of qualifying it with so many descriptors?
    - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
      > "a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences" You seem to be replying to the wrong comment. I never said anything remotely like that.
ty6853 2y ago
Don't worry they do it to citizens too. On one occasion CBP told me they would not let me enter the country. On another they imprisoned me for ~12 hours, on another they asked me if I work in the US and tried to demand ever more intrusive questions about it. ... I am us citizen presenting with us passport, look and talk extremely white with no foreign accent.
- kennysoona 2y ago
  How did your situation resolve? Did you sue them?
  - ty6853 2y ago
    The situation resolved in my passport being flagged, feds executing a fruitless search warrant (thankfully the doctors would not go through with the full cavity search but i am in debt for the warrant), and lawyers telling me I'm SOL. Everytime I go to the border I make sure my affairs are in order to be disappeared. It's good advice for anyone entering the US. Edit: just remembered the time they were enraged they had to let me in so threatened to revoke my passport.
    - kennysoona 2y ago
      > lawyers telling me I'm SOL. Why? On what basis?
      - ty6853 2y ago
        "We've tried litigating these cases before and after always failing we gave up pursuing these kinds of cases" -- in so many words.
      - layman51 2y ago
        I assume it has to do with a federal law that grants immigration agents broad searches and inspections and technically the Fourth Amendment does not fully apply as long as they are within 100 miles of the border or in the functional equivalent of a border (like an airport). The ACLU has a summary page about this.[1] [1]: https://www.aclu.org/documents/constitution-100-mile-border-zone https://www.aclu.org/documents/constitution-100-mile-border-...

jonnybgood 2y ago

> Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. Should they have put her on house arrest in a hotel room? She doesn't deserve special privileges. A huge swath of the US population would be adamantly against her being treated special.

PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
Do you know that mixed race marriage did not gain majority support in the USA until 1995? Sometimes it is right to not give a fuck about what "a huge swath of the US population thinks". And in this case, it's not about "special priviledges", it's about the ridiculousness of this process being applied to anyone in her circumstances.
- gggtttkkk88 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    I wasn't born in the USA.
    - gggtttkkk88 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
        My ancestors (going back to the 1400s) were the living embodiment of "the mutt mindset", only rooted in northern Europe. Someone who didn't want to fight in the Hugenot wars ran off to England, and the fucking began...
        gggtttkkk88 2y ago
        [flagged]
- casey2 2y ago
  What people say on polls and reality are very different. Most people in all countries don't support mixed race marriage.
kennysoona 2y ago
Again, discretion is a thing.
- lttlrck 2y ago
  Discretion rubs both ways. Just because it didn't happen to your/our preference this time doesn't mean it never happens.
  - kennysoona 2y ago
    I don't see what point you're trying to make here. The point was discretion should have been used this care regardless of other times it has been.

necovek 2y ago

I agree that the conditions are far from ideal, but if that's how US generally deals with people waiting for their court dates, it's what it is. This does not mean US should not work to improve those conditions for everyone — I don't see a difference between a Mexican person overstaying or her overstaying from the angle of immigration clerks — it should! US should also certainly adapt laws to avoid any "detention" for people open to "voluntary deportation". In my non-EU European country, arbitrary application of laws is exactly what's the issue. This leads to rampant corruption and society going crazy (it's not about being a good citizen, it's about not getting caught being a bad one).

PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
> but if that's how US generally deals with people waiting for their court dates, it's what it is. Historically, (as in: during periods where Trump is not president) it is not.
- necovek 2y ago
  It did happen before as well: see above comment I made about my IT colleague being drilled for hours when they said they were coming in "for work" instead of "for a business trip". If you've not passed US border control as a foreigner, you really have no idea of what a pleasant experience it... is not.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    My point was not that "being drilled" did not happen. Being locked up in a detention center for days (and in solitary confinement in at least one recent case) for this sort of violation would have been rare to non-existent. I crossed the US border many times as a foreigner, although I am now a citizen. The easiest kind of foreigner though - white, anglo, male, middle class. Even those qualifications don't seem like enough to stop the absurd responses from ICE anymore, though.
    - necovek 2y ago

gruez 2y ago

>All people involved have jurisdiction on how to apply the law. Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. So what are you proposing? Giving someone from an European country better treatment than someone from South America? Sounds like racism/white privilege to me. >It creates yet another person who will come to rightfully hate the US, gets bad press affecting tourism and business, and for what? For a girl that loved the US South Americans are fleeing prosecution from drug gangs or economic devastation. That's a far stronger justification than some girl who "loved the US" and wants to backpack for a few months. >misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences. As other people have mentioned, it's basically plastered everywhere during the ESTA process that you can't work. "misinterpreted or misunderstood" seems like a stretch.

PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
> Giving someone from an European country better treatment than someone from South America? Sounds like racism/white privilege to me. No, the proposal is to treat all such cases equivalently, regardless of national origin. That means no more prison/orange jump suit/inacessibility for Europeans or people from South America who screw up their visa conditions.
- gruez 2y ago
  >No, the proposal is to treat all such cases equivalently, regardless of national origin. Your description of "a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences" might not have any explicit racial/ethnic element, but it's pretty obvious you're selecting for a certain demographic when you're using criteria like that. Or are you arguing that nobody should be treated that way? In which case why not just say something like "nobody should be treated this way", instead of qualifying it with so many descriptors?
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    > "a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences" You seem to be replying to the wrong comment. I never said anything remotely like that.

ty6853 2y ago

Don't worry they do it to citizens too. On one occasion CBP told me they would not let me enter the country. On another they imprisoned me for ~12 hours, on another they asked me if I work in the US and tried to demand ever more intrusive questions about it. ... I am us citizen presenting with us passport, look and talk extremely white with no foreign accent.

kennysoona 2y ago
How did your situation resolve? Did you sue them?
- ty6853 2y ago
  The situation resolved in my passport being flagged, feds executing a fruitless search warrant (thankfully the doctors would not go through with the full cavity search but i am in debt for the warrant), and lawyers telling me I'm SOL. Everytime I go to the border I make sure my affairs are in order to be disappeared. It's good advice for anyone entering the US. Edit: just remembered the time they were enraged they had to let me in so threatened to revoke my passport.
  - kennysoona 2y ago
    > lawyers telling me I'm SOL. Why? On what basis?
    - ty6853 2y ago
      "We've tried litigating these cases before and after always failing we gave up pursuing these kinds of cases" -- in so many words.
    - layman51 2y ago
      I assume it has to do with a federal law that grants immigration agents broad searches and inspections and technically the Fourth Amendment does not fully apply as long as they are within 100 miles of the border or in the functional equivalent of a border (like an airport). The ACLU has a summary page about this.[1] [1]: https://www.aclu.org/documents/constitution-100-mile-border-zone https://www.aclu.org/documents/constitution-100-mile-border-...