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This is the death of the hacker. We have allowed new heights of power and unchecked control decide they know better than us. We are no longer allowed or trusted

by sotix 2y ago

This is the death of the hacker. We have allowed new heights of power and unchecked control decide they know better than us. We are no longer allowed or trusted to make choices in our best interests. Many practice apologetics for why this is necessary, pointing to Apple and Mozilla, as if that doesn’t make this change any less devastating. It was a great run. The silver lining is it can be the birth of a new generation of hackers. This generation’s version of the printer inspiring those who refuse to accept the hostile hand they’ve been dealt. Tech doesn’t have to be this way. You don’t have to accept these changes. Rebel! Start hacking away. Don’t join these companies. Found new ones that prioritize valuing users first forever. It’s a difficult task. But all difficult tasks we’ve solved were.

pmdr 2y ago
> Many practice apologetics for why this is necessary Sadly, on HN, of all places...
timmg 2y ago
> We are no longer allowed or trusted to make choices in our best interests. Ironically (or not) this is the Apple side of the Android/iOS debate. And most people are happier with iOS. (And use Macs over Linux, FWIW.) [I probably shouldn't mention that I personally think adblockers are unethical :) ]
- sotix 2y ago
  > And most people are happier with iOS. Source? > And use Macs over Linux, FWIW. This could be explained by marketing. > I personally think adblockers are unethical Do you think ads are ethical? For a relevant example, how about an Apple ad that successfully uses emotion to convince you to buy a Mac instead of a Linux computer that would better suit your needs at a better price hypothetically?
  - timmg 2y ago
    > Do you think ads are ethical? Generally, yes. Ads are an important function of commerce, tbh. False ads, of course, are not ethical. But we do have laws in that area (not that people don't break them.)
    - sotix 2y ago
      Fair enough! I stand on the side that the current ad landscape in the US gravitates towards convincing us to buy things we don’t need and consume more. And normally using manipulative tactics. For example, ads in the car industry that sell a lifestyle that convinces people to buy large pick up trucks they don’t need at costs they can’t actually afford.
      - timmg 2y ago
        But do you object to ads in general? If so: how do you think people will find out about new things? Even, like, a new movie or productivity product?
        sotix 2y ago
        I’m not sure it’s worth answering the question because to me it almost feels like a straw man in the sense that it’s disconnected from the current reality. I think running a movie trailer before another movies plays and putting up movie posters around the theater is fair play. It’s within the same context and is actually advertising an entertainment product. Further, people go out of their way to watch movie trailers on YouTube. However, the majority of ads I’m discussing don’t adhere to that. Overall, people are pretty good about finding out about things! If it’s really desired, some will seek it out. Others will learn via word of mouth. Steam is a good example I think where people find games without having to see ads on TV, online, or other areas.
        timmg 2y ago
        I was just trying to understand your POV. IMHO, something like "Show HN" is not much different than an ad. In some sense, neither is your resume. They are all about letting people know about options. But I can understand that those can be more contextual than other ads.
- adamsilkey 2y ago
  > [I probably shouldn't mention that I personally think adblockers are unethical :) ] Okay, I’ll bite. How are adblockers unethical?
  - timmg 2y ago
    Because websites make their money from ads. There is an implicit agreement that using those websites (for free) means you watch ads. I think: if you don't agree with that, then you shouldn't go to those sites. We complain about "enshitification" -- but then we take away all potential sources of revenue (and refuse to pay). So the only companies that can provide "free" services are ones that are already monetizing you in other ways.
- mortos 2y ago
  > (And use Macs over Linux, FWIW.) Interestingly, ChromeOS (Linux) has a higher market share than MacOS. Being forced to run random code and be tracked is unethical. But I should probably mention I'm a big supporter of the small web.

by sotix 2y ago

pmdr 2y ago

> Many practice apologetics for why this is necessary Sadly, on HN, of all places...

timmg 2y ago

> We are no longer allowed or trusted to make choices in our best interests. Ironically (or not) this is the Apple side of the Android/iOS debate. And most people are happier with iOS. (And use Macs over Linux, FWIW.) [I probably shouldn't mention that I personally think adblockers are unethical :) ]

sotix 2y ago
> And most people are happier with iOS. Source? > And use Macs over Linux, FWIW. This could be explained by marketing. > I personally think adblockers are unethical Do you think ads are ethical? For a relevant example, how about an Apple ad that successfully uses emotion to convince you to buy a Mac instead of a Linux computer that would better suit your needs at a better price hypothetically?
- timmg 2y ago
  > Do you think ads are ethical? Generally, yes. Ads are an important function of commerce, tbh. False ads, of course, are not ethical. But we do have laws in that area (not that people don't break them.)
  - sotix 2y ago
    Fair enough! I stand on the side that the current ad landscape in the US gravitates towards convincing us to buy things we don’t need and consume more. And normally using manipulative tactics. For example, ads in the car industry that sell a lifestyle that convinces people to buy large pick up trucks they don’t need at costs they can’t actually afford.
    - timmg 2y ago
      But do you object to ads in general? If so: how do you think people will find out about new things? Even, like, a new movie or productivity product?
      - sotix 2y ago
        I’m not sure it’s worth answering the question because to me it almost feels like a straw man in the sense that it’s disconnected from the current reality. I think running a movie trailer before another movies plays and putting up movie posters around the theater is fair play. It’s within the same context and is actually advertising an entertainment product. Further, people go out of their way to watch movie trailers on YouTube. However, the majority of ads I’m discussing don’t adhere to that. Overall, people are pretty good about finding out about things! If it’s really desired, some will seek it out. Others will learn via word of mouth. Steam is a good example I think where people find games without having to see ads on TV, online, or other areas.
        timmg 2y ago
        I was just trying to understand your POV. IMHO, something like "Show HN" is not much different than an ad. In some sense, neither is your resume. They are all about letting people know about options. But I can understand that those can be more contextual than other ads.
adamsilkey 2y ago
> [I probably shouldn't mention that I personally think adblockers are unethical :) ] Okay, I’ll bite. How are adblockers unethical?
- timmg 2y ago
  Because websites make their money from ads. There is an implicit agreement that using those websites (for free) means you watch ads. I think: if you don't agree with that, then you shouldn't go to those sites. We complain about "enshitification" -- but then we take away all potential sources of revenue (and refuse to pay). So the only companies that can provide "free" services are ones that are already monetizing you in other ways.
mortos 2y ago
> (And use Macs over Linux, FWIW.) Interestingly, ChromeOS (Linux) has a higher market share than MacOS. Being forced to run random code and be tracked is unethical. But I should probably mention I'm a big supporter of the small web.