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Probably shouldn't tell border patrol you're doing unpaid labor in a country you're visiting. When speaking to authorities it's best to say the absolute minimum

Probably shouldn't tell border patrol you're doing unpaid labor in a country you're visiting. When speaking to authorities it's best to say the absolute minimum required for the encounter.

chasil 2y ago
I've never had anything to do with foreign exchange students, but are they absolutely prohibited from work of any kind? If there is ambiguity, then we can't have them here.
- aaomidi 2y ago
  Basically.
- toast0 2y ago
  In the US, it's very clear. If they don't have work authorization from USCIS, they shouldn't be doing work. There's some guidelines out there on the internet [1], but the students should be extremely careful; any form of compensation or expectation of future compensation for their work could put them in serious trouble. The University of Michigan has a more fleshed out guideline page for their international students [2]. [1] https://marksgray.com/immigration-blog/can-foreign-nationals-volunteer-while-waiting-for-work-authorization/ https://marksgray.com/immigration-blog/can-foreign-nationals... [2] https://internationalcenter.umich.edu/students/employment-volunteer https://internationalcenter.umich.edu/students/employment-vo...
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    Musk is lucky enforcement wasn't as strict back then.
    - codedokode 2y ago
      Cannot citizenship be revoked for past violations?
      - toast0 2y ago
        There are acceptable grounds for revocation of naturalization [1], but I'm not sure that having previously violated visa terms necessarily qualifies. The question becomes was he lawfully admitted to permanent residency, and was there a concealment of material facts or willful misrepresentation involved in the process. We would need to really see his immigration file and have knowledge of the dates he was in the US, and when he performed work. [1] https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-l-chapter-2 https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-l-chapter...
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Not really. It has only happened a couple times in hundreds of years and was about foreign spys
- korkybuchek 2y ago
  > but are they absolutely prohibited from work of any kind? Generally yes. But you can have on-campus jobs to supplement your income, and there are at least two programs (CPT and OPT) that let you get approval for limited-term employment in your area of study. CPT also requires university approval.
  - kccqzy 2y ago
    Both would require university approval. OPT is literally structured as a course at the university.
    - davidgay 2y ago
      You can also do OPT "post-completion" of your degree - this also gives your (new) employer some time to apply for a longer-term work visa.
      - yandie 2y ago
        And you need to get work authorization (EAD card) for that. It’s not a given
- bakul 2y ago
  She was on a tourist visa. She should have gotten a J-1 visa who can do 20 hours/week part time work with some constraints. Some details about this visa: https://yfuusa.org/2024/05/16/j1-student-visa/ https://yfuusa.org/2024/05/16/j1-student-visa/
sergers 2y ago
or dont lie, apply for appropriate work permits/visa entries/travel authorizations if you are going to work whether its paid or not.
- dmix 2y ago
  You can get banned from coming to the US if they catch you lying about the reason you're crossing the border. It's a long arduous process and lawyer fees to get the ban overturned. Happened to a Canadian I knew a decade ago when they tried to enter on a tourist visa for business purposes. I'm sure it's similar in other countries but US has always been very strict given the huge amount of people trying to work there and the very finite supply of work visas. From my experience you'll also get extra scruntiny if you're traveling solo like this girl. I was secondary screened twice coming for business where they double checked my paperwork and TSA lady in the back asked a bunch of silly questions (like "what is PayPal").
hdjjhhvvhga 2y ago
Statements like these make me happy I live in Europe.
- quitit 2y ago
  Just some of my personal anecdotes: I was travelling to Ireland(Dublin) as a tourist and during questioning by a border agent I mentioned that I might check my email (they noticed my laptop), the border agent simply advised me that my visa did not allow work but since I was clearly being transparent about my actions and intentions that there was no reason for them to block me or require me to apply for a working visa, so after what was a friendly chat, I was on my way. I've also had similar interactions in other European countries such as Germany(Munich) and the UK(London Gatwick) - both of which are particularly thorny about economic migrants posing as other types of visitors or asylum seekers, again no problems and the staff are courteous while conducting their duties professionally. Meanwhile my last trip to the USA during Trump 1.0 involved the border agent not even speaking to me, but instead holding out his hand for paperwork - so I'd hand him a paper, and if it wasn't the one he wanted, he'd flick it back at me. It's obvious he's just trying to start shit so he can have an excuse to abuse the power granted to him. (LaGuardia Airport).
  - bruceb 2y ago
    This has been the case before the current administration. It isn't administration elusive. There is a lack of professionalism by some US border agents.
- j7ake 2y ago
  It is way harder for an Iranian to travel to Europe as a tourist than for them to travel to USA. Especially if you travel often like once a year. USA has 10 year tourist visas. Europe gives you the bare minimum to visit every time.
- yandie 2y ago
  European country really gave me bad taste when it comes to visa experience. Gave me the absolute minimum despite having a good paying job - and even after marrying a EU citizen I still had a hard time. This is news because this woman happens to be from a developed country and not a developing countries.
kube-system 2y ago
Barter isn’t really “unpaid”, but you also just shouldn’t be working if you don’t have work authorization. Border authorities have the means and motivation to validate any story you have about your stay.

Probably shouldn't tell border patrol you're doing unpaid labor in a country you're visiting. When speaking to authorities it's best to say the absolute minimum required for the encounter.

chasil 2y ago

I've never had anything to do with foreign exchange students, but are they absolutely prohibited from work of any kind? If there is ambiguity, then we can't have them here.

aaomidi 2y ago
Basically.
toast0 2y ago
In the US, it's very clear. If they don't have work authorization from USCIS, they shouldn't be doing work. There's some guidelines out there on the internet [1], but the students should be extremely careful; any form of compensation or expectation of future compensation for their work could put them in serious trouble. The University of Michigan has a more fleshed out guideline page for their international students [2]. [1] https://marksgray.com/immigration-blog/can-foreign-nationals-volunteer-while-waiting-for-work-authorization/ https://marksgray.com/immigration-blog/can-foreign-nationals... [2] https://internationalcenter.umich.edu/students/employment-volunteer https://internationalcenter.umich.edu/students/employment-vo...
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  Musk is lucky enforcement wasn't as strict back then.
  - codedokode 2y ago
    Cannot citizenship be revoked for past violations?
    - toast0 2y ago
      There are acceptable grounds for revocation of naturalization [1], but I'm not sure that having previously violated visa terms necessarily qualifies. The question becomes was he lawfully admitted to permanent residency, and was there a concealment of material facts or willful misrepresentation involved in the process. We would need to really see his immigration file and have knowledge of the dates he was in the US, and when he performed work. [1] https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-l-chapter-2 https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-l-chapter...
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      Not really. It has only happened a couple times in hundreds of years and was about foreign spys
korkybuchek 2y ago
> but are they absolutely prohibited from work of any kind? Generally yes. But you can have on-campus jobs to supplement your income, and there are at least two programs (CPT and OPT) that let you get approval for limited-term employment in your area of study. CPT also requires university approval.
- kccqzy 2y ago
  Both would require university approval. OPT is literally structured as a course at the university.
  - davidgay 2y ago
    You can also do OPT "post-completion" of your degree - this also gives your (new) employer some time to apply for a longer-term work visa.
    - yandie 2y ago
      And you need to get work authorization (EAD card) for that. It’s not a given
bakul 2y ago
She was on a tourist visa. She should have gotten a J-1 visa who can do 20 hours/week part time work with some constraints. Some details about this visa: https://yfuusa.org/2024/05/16/j1-student-visa/ https://yfuusa.org/2024/05/16/j1-student-visa/

sergers 2y ago

or dont lie, apply for appropriate work permits/visa entries/travel authorizations if you are going to work whether its paid or not.

dmix 2y ago
You can get banned from coming to the US if they catch you lying about the reason you're crossing the border. It's a long arduous process and lawyer fees to get the ban overturned. Happened to a Canadian I knew a decade ago when they tried to enter on a tourist visa for business purposes. I'm sure it's similar in other countries but US has always been very strict given the huge amount of people trying to work there and the very finite supply of work visas. From my experience you'll also get extra scruntiny if you're traveling solo like this girl. I was secondary screened twice coming for business where they double checked my paperwork and TSA lady in the back asked a bunch of silly questions (like "what is PayPal").

hdjjhhvvhga 2y ago

Statements like these make me happy I live in Europe.

quitit 2y ago
Just some of my personal anecdotes: I was travelling to Ireland(Dublin) as a tourist and during questioning by a border agent I mentioned that I might check my email (they noticed my laptop), the border agent simply advised me that my visa did not allow work but since I was clearly being transparent about my actions and intentions that there was no reason for them to block me or require me to apply for a working visa, so after what was a friendly chat, I was on my way. I've also had similar interactions in other European countries such as Germany(Munich) and the UK(London Gatwick) - both of which are particularly thorny about economic migrants posing as other types of visitors or asylum seekers, again no problems and the staff are courteous while conducting their duties professionally. Meanwhile my last trip to the USA during Trump 1.0 involved the border agent not even speaking to me, but instead holding out his hand for paperwork - so I'd hand him a paper, and if it wasn't the one he wanted, he'd flick it back at me. It's obvious he's just trying to start shit so he can have an excuse to abuse the power granted to him. (LaGuardia Airport).
- bruceb 2y ago
  This has been the case before the current administration. It isn't administration elusive. There is a lack of professionalism by some US border agents.
j7ake 2y ago
It is way harder for an Iranian to travel to Europe as a tourist than for them to travel to USA. Especially if you travel often like once a year. USA has 10 year tourist visas. Europe gives you the bare minimum to visit every time.
yandie 2y ago
European country really gave me bad taste when it comes to visa experience. Gave me the absolute minimum despite having a good paying job - and even after marrying a EU citizen I still had a hard time. This is news because this woman happens to be from a developed country and not a developing countries.

kube-system 2y ago

Barter isn’t really “unpaid”, but you also just shouldn’t be working if you don’t have work authorization. Border authorities have the means and motivation to validate any story you have about your stay.