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This map is great,very interesting. curious that GPS is jammed over Gdansk, Helsinki and Tallinn.

lawrenceduk 2y ago
It’s because they’re next to Kaliningrad, that weird Russian exclave
bitcurious 2y ago
Another way to see that geography is as approaches into Russia. Gdansk borders Kaliningrad, Helsinki and Tallinn straddle St Petersburg.
jjwiseman 2y ago
Russia has been jamming GPS over Finland, Estonia, and Poland on and off for a couple years, and it's been at its peak now for several months. Sometimes flights have to be canceled. Tartu airport in Estonia was closed for a while[1] because the only instrument approaches it has were GPS-based. Even worse than jamming is spoofing, which Russia also does. With jamming, you and the aircraft's systems both know what's happening. Spoofing isn't as easy to detect, as the GPS system can report the wrong location but think it's highly accurate. Spoofing (and to some extent jamming) can have a persistent effect on aircraft systems even after they move out of range of the jammer/spoofer, which can lead to degraded navigation accuracy for the rest of the flight. It's a whole deal. Russia is messing with strategically important systems of many European countries, and decreasing civilian aviation safety, and they rarely get called on it. For a long time there was reluctance to even name Russia as the culprit. 1. https://www.heise.de/en/news/GPS-jamming-no-more-flights-to-the-airport-in-Estonia-for-the-time-being-9703197.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/GPS-jamming-no-more-flights-to-...
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > Russia has been jamming GPS over Finland, Estonia, and Poland on and off for a couple years, and it's been at its peak now for several months. Sometimes flights have to be canceled. I feel like we had airports before we had GPS. If this is a regular thing, shouldn't we have ways of using the airport without hoping that the jamming is having an off day?
  - WorkerBee28474 2y ago
    Here's one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_octant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_octant
  - jjwiseman 2y ago
    There usually are other systems (e.g. ILS), but not always. This post has several comments along the lines of "We used to fly without GPS and it was fine!" The fact is that aviation is so much safer than it used to be, and GPS is part of that. GPS helps aircraft navigate accurately even when they're not near an airport. It helps give situational awareness and avoid mid-air collisions (almost every aircraft these days has a traffic display that shows ADS-B positions of other nearby aircraft, and those positions come from accurate GPS). Loss or spoofing of GPS isn't usually a critical safety issue on an aircraft, but it definitely removes layers of safety and adds additional risk. Pilots can lose that situational awareness of nearby traffic. They may have increased workload and distraction due to having to use a less familiar & less accurate means of navigation, trying to figure out why their systems aren't working correctly, and even getting bogus ground proximity warning system alerts. ATC may now have increased workload and distraction because some approaches or even runways are no longer usable. We drove cars for a long time without seat belts and air bags, too.
    - thaumasiotes 2y ago
      > We drove cars for a long time without seat belts and air bags, too. And if we were having problems with seatbelt jammers, everyone would instantly respond by just not using seatbelts in those areas. There would be no road closures and no trip cancellations. What are we supposed to learn from this analogy?
      - jjwiseman 2y ago
        That aviation without GPS isn’t as safe as aviation with it.
        thaumasiotes 2y ago
- ithkuil 2y ago
  They are surely doing that because they want to divert NATO expansion westward /s

It’s because they’re next to Kaliningrad, that weird Russian exclave

Another way to see that geography is as approaches into Russia. Gdansk borders Kaliningrad, Helsinki and Tallinn straddle St Petersburg.

jjwiseman 2y ago

Russia has been jamming GPS over Finland, Estonia, and Poland on and off for a couple years, and it's been at its peak now for several months. Sometimes flights have to be canceled. Tartu airport in Estonia was closed for a while[1] because the only instrument approaches it has were GPS-based. Even worse than jamming is spoofing, which Russia also does. With jamming, you and the aircraft's systems both know what's happening. Spoofing isn't as easy to detect, as the GPS system can report the wrong location but think it's highly accurate. Spoofing (and to some extent jamming) can have a persistent effect on aircraft systems even after they move out of range of the jammer/spoofer, which can lead to degraded navigation accuracy for the rest of the flight. It's a whole deal. Russia is messing with strategically important systems of many European countries, and decreasing civilian aviation safety, and they rarely get called on it. For a long time there was reluctance to even name Russia as the culprit. 1. https://www.heise.de/en/news/GPS-jamming-no-more-flights-to-the-airport-in-Estonia-for-the-time-being-9703197.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/GPS-jamming-no-more-flights-to-...

thaumasiotes 2y ago
> Russia has been jamming GPS over Finland, Estonia, and Poland on and off for a couple years, and it's been at its peak now for several months. Sometimes flights have to be canceled. I feel like we had airports before we had GPS. If this is a regular thing, shouldn't we have ways of using the airport without hoping that the jamming is having an off day?
- WorkerBee28474 2y ago
  Here's one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_octant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_octant
- jjwiseman 2y ago
  There usually are other systems (e.g. ILS), but not always. This post has several comments along the lines of "We used to fly without GPS and it was fine!" The fact is that aviation is so much safer than it used to be, and GPS is part of that. GPS helps aircraft navigate accurately even when they're not near an airport. It helps give situational awareness and avoid mid-air collisions (almost every aircraft these days has a traffic display that shows ADS-B positions of other nearby aircraft, and those positions come from accurate GPS). Loss or spoofing of GPS isn't usually a critical safety issue on an aircraft, but it definitely removes layers of safety and adds additional risk. Pilots can lose that situational awareness of nearby traffic. They may have increased workload and distraction due to having to use a less familiar & less accurate means of navigation, trying to figure out why their systems aren't working correctly, and even getting bogus ground proximity warning system alerts. ATC may now have increased workload and distraction because some approaches or even runways are no longer usable. We drove cars for a long time without seat belts and air bags, too.
  - thaumasiotes 2y ago
    > We drove cars for a long time without seat belts and air bags, too. And if we were having problems with seatbelt jammers, everyone would instantly respond by just not using seatbelts in those areas. There would be no road closures and no trip cancellations. What are we supposed to learn from this analogy?
    - jjwiseman 2y ago
      That aviation without GPS isn’t as safe as aviation with it.
      - thaumasiotes 2y ago
ithkuil 2y ago
They are surely doing that because they want to divert NATO expansion westward /s