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I had a mind-bending Salvia trip at eighteen that went sort of like that. My mind turned into an infinitely large department store where each aisle was a concu

I had a mind-bending Salvia trip at eighteen that went sort of like that. My mind turned into an infinitely large department store where each aisle was a concurrent branch of thought, and the common ingredient lists above each aisle were populated with words, feelings and concepts related to each branch. The PA system replaced my internal monologue, which I no longer had, but instead I was hearing my thoughts externally as if they were another person's. I was able to walk through these aisles and marvel at the immense, fractal, interdependent web of concurrent thought my brain was producing in realtime.

_rpxpx 2y ago
“When I began to navigate psychospace with LSD, I realized that before we were conscious, seemingly self-propelled human beings, many tapes and corridors had been created in our minds and reflexes which were not of our own making. These patterns and tapes laid down in our consciousness are walled off from each other. I see it as a vast labyrinth with high walls sealing off the many directives created by our personal history. Many of these directives are contradictory. The coexistence of these contradictory programs is what we call inner conflict. This conflict causes us to constantly check ourselves while we are caught in the opposition of polarity. Another metaphor would be like a computer with many programs running simultaneously. The more programs that are running, the slower the computer functions. This is a problem then. With all the programs running that are demanded of our consciousness in this modern world, we have problems finding deep integration. To complicate matters, the programs are reinforced by fear. Fear separates, love integrates. We find ourselves drawn to love and unity, but afraid to make the leap. What I found to be the genius of LSD is that it really gets you high, higher than the programs, higher than the walls that mask and blind one to the energy destroying presence of many contradictory but hidden programs. When LSD is used intentionally it enables you to see all the tracks laid down, to explore each one intensely. It also allows you to see the many parallel and redundant programs as well as the contradictory ones. It allows you to see the underlying unity of all opposites in the magic play of existence. This allows you to edit these programs and recreate superior programs that give you the insight to shake loose the restrictions and conflicts programmed into each one of us by our parents, our religion, our early education, and by society as a whole.” ~ Nick Sand, 2001, Mind States conference, quoted in Casey Hardison's obituary
- wincy 2y ago
  I feel like if all the things people believe and espouse about hallucinogens were true and not just the effect of permanently damaging your mind, with the illusion of wisdom, we’d be able to point at all the revolutionary scientific breakthroughs and discoveries made under the influence of hallucinogenic substances. However, everyone I’ve met who admits to having taken hallucinogens seems reduced in some way, rather than enhanced. Like the lights are on but someone else is home.
  - antonkar 2y ago
    There is the Qualia Research Institute, one of the things they do is using dope and making simulations of the experience. They basically found 2 main types of drugs: 1. Most “create more separate personalities” in you 2. One (the “toad poison”) actually makes you feel like a giant place, the feeling is usually pleasant. So there is either “agentification” of you into more “agents” or “space-ification” into one giant place without any agency in it. I think we can make this static place AI and it’ll be safe by definition because we’re the only agents in it. P.S. I don’t promote drugs
  - bongodongobob 2y ago
    It happens all the time. DNA double helix is a good example. You really think people are going to mention their drug use in white papers? I think not. Nothing to gain and everything to lose.
    - devmor 2y ago
      The record of a scientific discovery that is heavily criticized for plagiarism and falsehoods is probably not a good example, actually.
      - bongodongobob 2y ago
        Well here's one: tons of people do drugs. It's not even a question whether or not drugs have inspired discoveries. They obviously have.
antonkar 2y ago
We have our first Neo candidate) The guy who’ll make the GUI for LLMs is the next Jobs/Gates/Musk and Nobel Prize Winner (I think it’ll solve alignment by having millions of eyes on the internals of LLMs), because computers became popular only after the OS with a GUI appeared. I recently shared how one of its “apps” possibly can look: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43319726 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43319726
neom 2y ago
If you feel like being a hippie, you can find the "rendering engine for reality" in here: Mandelbrot (1980) – The Mandelbrot Set and fractal geometry Julia (1918) – Memoire sur l'iteration des fonctions rationelles (Julia sets) Meyer (1996) – Quantum Cellular Automata (procedural complexity) Wolfram (1984) – Cellular automata as models of complexity Bak et al. (1987) – Self-organized criticality. Wolfram, Gorard & Crowley (2020) - "A Class of Models with the Potential to Represent Fundamental Physics" - Kari & Culik (2009) - "Universal Pattern Generation by Cellular Automata". Just combine the papers, ofc, that is crazy - but its fun to be a bit crazy sometimes. It's one of my fav thought experiments, just for fun. :)
- antonkar 2y ago
  I used Wolfram’s physics approach to “model the absolute future and possible ethics of it”, I think it’s direct democratic simulated multiverse, you can find the link in my profile, if interested
  - neom 2y ago
    no need to read it, no disagreement here.

_rpxpx 2y ago

“When I began to navigate psychospace with LSD, I realized that before we were conscious, seemingly self-propelled human beings, many tapes and corridors had been created in our minds and reflexes which were not of our own making. These patterns and tapes laid down in our consciousness are walled off from each other. I see it as a vast labyrinth with high walls sealing off the many directives created by our personal history. Many of these directives are contradictory. The coexistence of these contradictory programs is what we call inner conflict. This conflict causes us to constantly check ourselves while we are caught in the opposition of polarity. Another metaphor would be like a computer with many programs running simultaneously. The more programs that are running, the slower the computer functions. This is a problem then. With all the programs running that are demanded of our consciousness in this modern world, we have problems finding deep integration. To complicate matters, the programs are reinforced by fear. Fear separates, love integrates. We find ourselves drawn to love and unity, but afraid to make the leap. What I found to be the genius of LSD is that it really gets you high, higher than the programs, higher than the walls that mask and blind one to the energy destroying presence of many contradictory but hidden programs. When LSD is used intentionally it enables you to see all the tracks laid down, to explore each one intensely. It also allows you to see the many parallel and redundant programs as well as the contradictory ones. It allows you to see the underlying unity of all opposites in the magic play of existence. This allows you to edit these programs and recreate superior programs that give you the insight to shake loose the restrictions and conflicts programmed into each one of us by our parents, our religion, our early education, and by society as a whole.” ~ Nick Sand, 2001, Mind States conference, quoted in Casey Hardison's obituary

wincy 2y ago
I feel like if all the things people believe and espouse about hallucinogens were true and not just the effect of permanently damaging your mind, with the illusion of wisdom, we’d be able to point at all the revolutionary scientific breakthroughs and discoveries made under the influence of hallucinogenic substances. However, everyone I’ve met who admits to having taken hallucinogens seems reduced in some way, rather than enhanced. Like the lights are on but someone else is home.
- antonkar 2y ago
  There is the Qualia Research Institute, one of the things they do is using dope and making simulations of the experience. They basically found 2 main types of drugs: 1. Most “create more separate personalities” in you 2. One (the “toad poison”) actually makes you feel like a giant place, the feeling is usually pleasant. So there is either “agentification” of you into more “agents” or “space-ification” into one giant place without any agency in it. I think we can make this static place AI and it’ll be safe by definition because we’re the only agents in it. P.S. I don’t promote drugs
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  It happens all the time. DNA double helix is a good example. You really think people are going to mention their drug use in white papers? I think not. Nothing to gain and everything to lose.
  - devmor 2y ago
    The record of a scientific discovery that is heavily criticized for plagiarism and falsehoods is probably not a good example, actually.
    - bongodongobob 2y ago
      Well here's one: tons of people do drugs. It's not even a question whether or not drugs have inspired discoveries. They obviously have.

antonkar 2y ago

We have our first Neo candidate) The guy who’ll make the GUI for LLMs is the next Jobs/Gates/Musk and Nobel Prize Winner (I think it’ll solve alignment by having millions of eyes on the internals of LLMs), because computers became popular only after the OS with a GUI appeared. I recently shared how one of its “apps” possibly can look: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43319726 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43319726

neom 2y ago

If you feel like being a hippie, you can find the "rendering engine for reality" in here: Mandelbrot (1980) – The Mandelbrot Set and fractal geometry Julia (1918) – Memoire sur l'iteration des fonctions rationelles (Julia sets) Meyer (1996) – Quantum Cellular Automata (procedural complexity) Wolfram (1984) – Cellular automata as models of complexity Bak et al. (1987) – Self-organized criticality. Wolfram, Gorard & Crowley (2020) - "A Class of Models with the Potential to Represent Fundamental Physics" - Kari & Culik (2009) - "Universal Pattern Generation by Cellular Automata". Just combine the papers, ofc, that is crazy - but its fun to be a bit crazy sometimes. It's one of my fav thought experiments, just for fun. :)

antonkar 2y ago
I used Wolfram’s physics approach to “model the absolute future and possible ethics of it”, I think it’s direct democratic simulated multiverse, you can find the link in my profile, if interested
- neom 2y ago
  no need to read it, no disagreement here.