4 ms·

Have we crossed the threshold where more "Graphics Processing Units" are sold for ML than for graphics processing? I remember thinking it was funny that gaming

by dguest 2y ago

Have we crossed the threshold where more "Graphics Processing Units" are sold for ML than for graphics processing? I remember thinking it was funny that gaming ultimately subsidized a lot of the major advances in ML for the last decade. We might be flipping to a point where ML subsidizes gaming.

somenameforme 2y ago
The 'death' of PC computing has been rather exaggerated. Each year hundreds of millions of PCs are still sold, and that's exclusively referring to prepackaged stuff. There's then the increasingly large chunk of people that simply upgrade a frankenputer as necessary. As for gaming Steam has users in the hundreds of millions and continues to regularly grow. And while that is certainly going to encompass most people, I'm sure there are some oddballs out there that game but don't use Steam. So GPUs sold primarily for ML probably still make up a tiny share of the overall market, but I expect they make up a huge chunk of the market for cards like A100. Gaming hasn't been bleeding edge (in terms of requirements) for a very long time and card prices drop quickly, so there's just no point in spending that sort of money on a card for gaming.
- adastra22 2y ago
  GPUs for data centers makes up a vastly larger portion of NVIDIA’s sales.
  - somenameforme 2y ago
    These are very different stats. He was referring to unit sales of GPUs, not $ sales. The A100 is a $8000+ video card and so cards like it are going to dominate in revenue, even if their sales numbers are relatively low. For contrast the most popular card, per the Steam hardware survey, is (inexplicably - probably because of prepackaged kits) the RTX 4060, which is a $300 card.
    - genewitch 2y ago
      4060 was probably the only 4000 series GPU available for a while, too. I have a 3090 for AI and gaming and I haven't seen a reason to "upgrade" yet. In fact, I might try and get a 3090ti instead.
    - adastra22 2y ago
      It is the stat that matters in business. NVIDIA is now an AI company with a small graphics card side hustle.
- oblio 2y ago
  In 2024 256 million PCs were sold but only 40 million of those were desktops. Excluding the fact that some PCs (hard to say a number but I'd be surprised if it weren't over 40%) are office PCs with crappy GPUs, most laptops also have a bad, integrated GPU. There's a chance that this year or the next one more GPUs will be sold for AI than for graphics.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Laptops are also desktops, for all pratical purposes other than being able to swap components. There are plenty of games and graphics to play, all the way back to the Atari 2600, not everyone is playing the last version of Call of Duty, Cyberpunk, or whatever tops the AAA charts. In fact, those integrated GPUs are good enough for WebGL 2.0, which I still haven't seen much that can top mobile games graphics in the last 10 years (done with OpenGL ES), other than demoscene reels on shader competitions.
    - oblio 2y ago
      I'm fairly sure OP was more concerned about modern GPUs being used as TPUs or whatever they're called, than about what graphics circuits the Atari 2600 was using.
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        There is wide range between Atari 2600 and what is on Steam that doesn't require an RTX 5090.
        oblio 2y ago
        The entire thread was about GPU <<sales>>.
        pjmlp 2y ago
        Exactly the point, you don't need to buy a RTX 5090 to play games, there are plenty of games around to chose from that don't require a RTX 5090. Not everyone is hunting GPUs for AI, other than hyperscalers. Additionally, maybe Linux users would be left out, everyone else is already migrating to NPUs, GPUs for AI is fighting the last war.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Specially funny to me is how on console orientend channels everyone is talking about the raise of PC gaming, it never went anywhere. Using computers, not game consoles, for gaming was all over the place during the 8 and 16 bit home computing days, and the large majority eventually moved into Windows PC, as the other platforms died, that is why Valve has to translate Windows/DirectX if they want to have any games at all on their SteamDeck. Consoles has been a niche market, at least here in Europe, mainly used by kids until they are old enough not to destroy the family's computer while playing games, given that many families only have one per household. And nowadays that roles has probably been taken over the tablets. To the point that Playstation/XBox are now becoming publishing brands, as the exponential growth for selling consoles has plateaued. PC gaming is going nowhere.
adastra22 2y ago
We hit that a few years ago. That’s when NVIDIA’s stock skyrocketed.

by dguest 2y ago

somenameforme 2y ago

The 'death' of PC computing has been rather exaggerated. Each year hundreds of millions of PCs are still sold, and that's exclusively referring to prepackaged stuff. There's then the increasingly large chunk of people that simply upgrade a frankenputer as necessary. As for gaming Steam has users in the hundreds of millions and continues to regularly grow. And while that is certainly going to encompass most people, I'm sure there are some oddballs out there that game but don't use Steam. So GPUs sold primarily for ML probably still make up a tiny share of the overall market, but I expect they make up a huge chunk of the market for cards like A100. Gaming hasn't been bleeding edge (in terms of requirements) for a very long time and card prices drop quickly, so there's just no point in spending that sort of money on a card for gaming.

adastra22 2y ago
GPUs for data centers makes up a vastly larger portion of NVIDIA’s sales.
- somenameforme 2y ago
  These are very different stats. He was referring to unit sales of GPUs, not $ sales. The A100 is a $8000+ video card and so cards like it are going to dominate in revenue, even if their sales numbers are relatively low. For contrast the most popular card, per the Steam hardware survey, is (inexplicably - probably because of prepackaged kits) the RTX 4060, which is a $300 card.
  - genewitch 2y ago
    4060 was probably the only 4000 series GPU available for a while, too. I have a 3090 for AI and gaming and I haven't seen a reason to "upgrade" yet. In fact, I might try and get a 3090ti instead.
  - adastra22 2y ago
    It is the stat that matters in business. NVIDIA is now an AI company with a small graphics card side hustle.
oblio 2y ago
In 2024 256 million PCs were sold but only 40 million of those were desktops. Excluding the fact that some PCs (hard to say a number but I'd be surprised if it weren't over 40%) are office PCs with crappy GPUs, most laptops also have a bad, integrated GPU. There's a chance that this year or the next one more GPUs will be sold for AI than for graphics.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Laptops are also desktops, for all pratical purposes other than being able to swap components. There are plenty of games and graphics to play, all the way back to the Atari 2600, not everyone is playing the last version of Call of Duty, Cyberpunk, or whatever tops the AAA charts. In fact, those integrated GPUs are good enough for WebGL 2.0, which I still haven't seen much that can top mobile games graphics in the last 10 years (done with OpenGL ES), other than demoscene reels on shader competitions.
  - oblio 2y ago
    I'm fairly sure OP was more concerned about modern GPUs being used as TPUs or whatever they're called, than about what graphics circuits the Atari 2600 was using.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      There is wide range between Atari 2600 and what is on Steam that doesn't require an RTX 5090.
      - oblio 2y ago
        The entire thread was about GPU <<sales>>.
        pjmlp 2y ago
        Exactly the point, you don't need to buy a RTX 5090 to play games, there are plenty of games around to chose from that don't require a RTX 5090. Not everyone is hunting GPUs for AI, other than hyperscalers. Additionally, maybe Linux users would be left out, everyone else is already migrating to NPUs, GPUs for AI is fighting the last war.
pjmlp 2y ago
Specially funny to me is how on console orientend channels everyone is talking about the raise of PC gaming, it never went anywhere. Using computers, not game consoles, for gaming was all over the place during the 8 and 16 bit home computing days, and the large majority eventually moved into Windows PC, as the other platforms died, that is why Valve has to translate Windows/DirectX if they want to have any games at all on their SteamDeck. Consoles has been a niche market, at least here in Europe, mainly used by kids until they are old enough not to destroy the family's computer while playing games, given that many families only have one per household. And nowadays that roles has probably been taken over the tablets. To the point that Playstation/XBox are now becoming publishing brands, as the exponential growth for selling consoles has plateaued. PC gaming is going nowhere.

adastra22 2y ago

We hit that a few years ago. That’s when NVIDIA’s stock skyrocketed.