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> It feels like they're flailing in China because the competition is now better. There is BYD and other brands (Chinese or not) in places outside of China. Jus

by re-thc 2y ago

> It feels like they're flailing in China because the competition is now better. There is BYD and other brands (Chinese or not) in places outside of China. Just like how Tesla is not USA only. > They're flailing everywhere else because they are now associated with Musk and his nazi salutes How do we go assuming that "everywhere else" cares about this and China doesn't?

palata 2y ago
Do you genuinely believe that Chinese consumers are not buying Tesla anymore because the US are becoming enemies of the West and Musk is overtly a Nazi? Feels more reasonable to me that they just buy Chinese brands because those are good alternatives. > How do we go assuming that "everywhere else" cares about this and China doesn't? The US being governed by fascists has a very big impact on a lot of the world. But I'm pretty sure China doesn't feel threatened the way the ex allies of US feel today. My point was that the main reason for the West to look for US alternatives is that the US has become a threat to them. The US hasn't become a threat to China in the last two months.
- re-thc 2y ago
  > My point was that the main reason for the West to look for US alternatives is that the US has become a threat to them. The US hasn't become a threat to China in the last two months. Really? China just had their tariffs increased. That's not a thing? Also to Mexico and Canada, which impacts China (China would export there too and then into the US). China is also getting continued and additional sanctions, e.g. over AI and that's not a threat? > Feels more reasonable to me that they just buy Chinese brands because those are good alternatives. So why is that China-only is my point? Same applies everywhere. > The US being governed by fascists has a very big impact on a lot of the world. I still don't get what media you follow where there's impact to the world BUT China. If the world is impacted, then that impacts the buyers available (demand) to buy Chinese goods, so China is also impacted?
  - palata 2y ago
    Wow it's pretty difficult to try talking with you. Not sure if you genuinely don't understand that there may be nuance in what I am saying, or if you're just manipulating for the sport. I am not saying that it does not impact China. I am saying that it is much less of a concern for them. Of course it's annoying, but China was not trusting and dependending on the US militarily 2 months ago. China is already prepared to fight against the US if necessary. Europe/Canada much less so, because until 2025 they considered the US as allies! Which means that there is a lot more resentment towards the US, and fear.
    - re-thc 2y ago
      > Wow it's pretty difficult to try talking with you. i.e. resort to personal attacks? If you have a valid point I genuinely don't understand why you can't discuss the actual matter at hand. > don't understand that there may be nuance in what I am saying, or if you're just manipulating for the sport The problem is you're taking Western media reports at face value and for granted. There are nuances and it is in what you see and hear. I mean the Chinese at some point loved Western goods - likely way more than your "allies". Tesla had a large % of sales there. > Europe/Canada much less so, because until 2025 they considered the US as allies! Will Captain America come around? It's not a movie. The real world never works like this. No 1 blindly assume as so and the EU themselves have gladly in the past gone against "their ally" on many policies including on China. US has never really helped any nation "for free". You just might not know what they want or got out of it.
      - palata 2y ago
        > I mean the Chinese at some point loved Western goods And they stopped loving them in the last 2 months because of the US, is that what you are trying to say? Why do you think Tesla sales are going down in China? > and the EU themselves have gladly in the past gone against "their ally" Are you comparing "disagreeing on some policies regarding a third-party country" and "threatening to invade militarily"? I am not sure you actually understand what is being said to Canada/EU: Trump is talking about sending the US military to invade Canada and the EU (and others). When is the last time Canada/EU threatened to invade the US?
- Zigurd 2y ago
  The kind of people who can afford a Tesla in China have a global perspective, generally. It's not North Korea. They read the overseas press, and they know how belligerent Trump has been in an inconsistent and error prone way toward China. They've made up their own minds about him, never mind what the government says.
  - palata 2y ago
    I just haven't heard that Tesla owners in China are considering selling it because they feel bad and get judged just by driving a Tesla. To me it feels more like the Amazon situation, where everybody knows they should not support Amazon because of how they treat people, but nobody makes big efforts to avoid Amazon.

by re-thc 2y ago

palata 2y ago

Do you genuinely believe that Chinese consumers are not buying Tesla anymore because the US are becoming enemies of the West and Musk is overtly a Nazi? Feels more reasonable to me that they just buy Chinese brands because those are good alternatives. > How do we go assuming that "everywhere else" cares about this and China doesn't? The US being governed by fascists has a very big impact on a lot of the world. But I'm pretty sure China doesn't feel threatened the way the ex allies of US feel today. My point was that the main reason for the West to look for US alternatives is that the US has become a threat to them. The US hasn't become a threat to China in the last two months.

re-thc 2y ago
> My point was that the main reason for the West to look for US alternatives is that the US has become a threat to them. The US hasn't become a threat to China in the last two months. Really? China just had their tariffs increased. That's not a thing? Also to Mexico and Canada, which impacts China (China would export there too and then into the US). China is also getting continued and additional sanctions, e.g. over AI and that's not a threat? > Feels more reasonable to me that they just buy Chinese brands because those are good alternatives. So why is that China-only is my point? Same applies everywhere. > The US being governed by fascists has a very big impact on a lot of the world. I still don't get what media you follow where there's impact to the world BUT China. If the world is impacted, then that impacts the buyers available (demand) to buy Chinese goods, so China is also impacted?
- palata 2y ago
  Wow it's pretty difficult to try talking with you. Not sure if you genuinely don't understand that there may be nuance in what I am saying, or if you're just manipulating for the sport. I am not saying that it does not impact China. I am saying that it is much less of a concern for them. Of course it's annoying, but China was not trusting and dependending on the US militarily 2 months ago. China is already prepared to fight against the US if necessary. Europe/Canada much less so, because until 2025 they considered the US as allies! Which means that there is a lot more resentment towards the US, and fear.
  - re-thc 2y ago
    > Wow it's pretty difficult to try talking with you. i.e. resort to personal attacks? If you have a valid point I genuinely don't understand why you can't discuss the actual matter at hand. > don't understand that there may be nuance in what I am saying, or if you're just manipulating for the sport The problem is you're taking Western media reports at face value and for granted. There are nuances and it is in what you see and hear. I mean the Chinese at some point loved Western goods - likely way more than your "allies". Tesla had a large % of sales there. > Europe/Canada much less so, because until 2025 they considered the US as allies! Will Captain America come around? It's not a movie. The real world never works like this. No 1 blindly assume as so and the EU themselves have gladly in the past gone against "their ally" on many policies including on China. US has never really helped any nation "for free". You just might not know what they want or got out of it.
    - palata 2y ago
      > I mean the Chinese at some point loved Western goods And they stopped loving them in the last 2 months because of the US, is that what you are trying to say? Why do you think Tesla sales are going down in China? > and the EU themselves have gladly in the past gone against "their ally" Are you comparing "disagreeing on some policies regarding a third-party country" and "threatening to invade militarily"? I am not sure you actually understand what is being said to Canada/EU: Trump is talking about sending the US military to invade Canada and the EU (and others). When is the last time Canada/EU threatened to invade the US?
Zigurd 2y ago
The kind of people who can afford a Tesla in China have a global perspective, generally. It's not North Korea. They read the overseas press, and they know how belligerent Trump has been in an inconsistent and error prone way toward China. They've made up their own minds about him, never mind what the government says.
- palata 2y ago
  I just haven't heard that Tesla owners in China are considering selling it because they feel bad and get judged just by driving a Tesla. To me it feels more like the Amazon situation, where everybody knows they should not support Amazon because of how they treat people, but nobody makes big efforts to avoid Amazon.