5 ms·

I know that it's not in the cards (yet), but I hope the UK and the EU can be a single market again (even if the UK does not rejoin the EU). Let's make our marke

I know that it's not in the cards (yet), but I hope the UK and the EU can be a single market again (even if the UK does not rejoin the EU). Let's make our market as large and attractive as possible! We love the UK and you are part of the European family :hugs:.

ChocolateGod 2y ago
Whilst a good idea, no politician is going to try and do it under the fear of reigniting the Brexit argument which ends up dominating politics in the country.
- microtonal 2y ago
  Yeah, that's why I don't think it's in the cards yet. On the other hand, things are very fluid now. Things that were unthinkable two months ago (e.g. Germany ending the 'debt brake') are happening now.
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    >Germany ending the 'debt brake') are happening now. Now what exactly they're goanna do with the extra debt is the question. More debt to fund innovation, infrastructure, defense, education and healthcare is welcome, but if it's just more debt to fund welfare and pensions, like Southern Europe, then nothing will improve.
    - Tarsul 2y ago
      They will change the paragraphs only wrt infrastructure, defense (and possibly climate things to get the votes of the greens). Meaning that the debt brake will still exist for all other things, basically. (but yes: creative bookkeeping will become easier ;))
    - pjc50 2y ago
      It's to fund re-armament.
      - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
        The other question is why did Germany/EU disarm in the first place when the US didn't, despite not living next-dorr to Russia?
        pjc50 2y ago
        The US did disarm somewhat after the Cold War, but kept a lot in place for pork-barrel reasons and then the absolutely huge waste of money that was the War On Terror. People believed the "end of history" narratives about Russia, and even that it would become like the rest of the ex-communist states, a normal part of liberal Europe. That should have changed after 2014, but by then the grip of the financial crisis was preventing any increases in state spending.
- jimnotgym 2y ago
  Oh I think a war with Russia would override those concerns!
- RobotToaster 2y ago
  Most people who voted for Brexit were mostly concerned about free movement of people, not goods. I doubt a free trade agreement would upset them too much. If the EU would accept a FTA without free movement of people is another matter.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    > If the EU would accept a FTA without free movement of people is another matter. Absolutely not. This was made clear repeatedly. What became clear in the UK was that we'd rather lose market access in order to appease people with an irrational hatred of our fellow Europeans. If people think trade and movement boundaries are good, why don't we have internal ones? Why should Mancunians be allowed to take up scarce housing in London?
    - SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
      You are correct. EU: "The free movement of goods is one of the four fundamental economic freedoms laid down in the EU founding treaties, the other three being the free movement of capital, services and people." https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/free-movement-of-goods.html https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/free-mov... > "The single market seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and people, known collectively as the "four freedoms" " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_single_market https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_single_market The EU would welcome the UK being closer aligned to the EU, trade-wise. But the UK cannot be in the single market without all four freedoms. Which the UK still rules out.
  - realityking 2y ago
    The UK has a FTA with the EU. What they don’t have is access to the single market or a customs union.
  - account42 2y ago
    Yet those people are not at all concerned with free movement of non-European "refugees" now.
kergonath 2y ago
> Let's make our market as large and attractive as possible! That would be the rational and sensible solution. This may be why it’s unlikely to happen. I would be happy to be wrong.
- wouldbecouldbe 2y ago
  If only it was so simple, there are of course many conflicting interests in Europe, with certain countries who are more export oriented for instance benefiting from a weak Euro and others from a stronger Euro etc.
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    But the EU is a single market.
    - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
      A single one on paper but a heavily divided one in practice where every country wants to be king or at least backstab everyone else to get what it wants.
      - ffsm8 2y ago
        I sometimes wish we could abolish our nations and replace the current treaties with a voluntary merge of all participating countries, making everyone simply citizens, throwing out all national law books and replacing it with a single Continental one. Won't happen without a war - so hopefully not within my lifetime, but playing make believe is fun sometimes.
        FirmwareBurner 2y ago
        How would a war in Europe unite people under one leadership? See the regions that have been ceded and annexed post WW1 and post WW2, they still have beef with the new host countries bickering about regional autonomy. You can conquer land, but conquering people is a lot more difficult.

ChocolateGod 2y ago

Whilst a good idea, no politician is going to try and do it under the fear of reigniting the Brexit argument which ends up dominating politics in the country.

microtonal 2y ago
Yeah, that's why I don't think it's in the cards yet. On the other hand, things are very fluid now. Things that were unthinkable two months ago (e.g. Germany ending the 'debt brake') are happening now.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  >Germany ending the 'debt brake') are happening now. Now what exactly they're goanna do with the extra debt is the question. More debt to fund innovation, infrastructure, defense, education and healthcare is welcome, but if it's just more debt to fund welfare and pensions, like Southern Europe, then nothing will improve.
  - Tarsul 2y ago
    They will change the paragraphs only wrt infrastructure, defense (and possibly climate things to get the votes of the greens). Meaning that the debt brake will still exist for all other things, basically. (but yes: creative bookkeeping will become easier ;))
  - pjc50 2y ago
    It's to fund re-armament.
    - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
      The other question is why did Germany/EU disarm in the first place when the US didn't, despite not living next-dorr to Russia?
      - pjc50 2y ago
        The US did disarm somewhat after the Cold War, but kept a lot in place for pork-barrel reasons and then the absolutely huge waste of money that was the War On Terror. People believed the "end of history" narratives about Russia, and even that it would become like the rest of the ex-communist states, a normal part of liberal Europe. That should have changed after 2014, but by then the grip of the financial crisis was preventing any increases in state spending.
jimnotgym 2y ago
Oh I think a war with Russia would override those concerns!
RobotToaster 2y ago
Most people who voted for Brexit were mostly concerned about free movement of people, not goods. I doubt a free trade agreement would upset them too much. If the EU would accept a FTA without free movement of people is another matter.
- pjc50 2y ago
  > If the EU would accept a FTA without free movement of people is another matter. Absolutely not. This was made clear repeatedly. What became clear in the UK was that we'd rather lose market access in order to appease people with an irrational hatred of our fellow Europeans. If people think trade and movement boundaries are good, why don't we have internal ones? Why should Mancunians be allowed to take up scarce housing in London?
  - SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
    You are correct. EU: "The free movement of goods is one of the four fundamental economic freedoms laid down in the EU founding treaties, the other three being the free movement of capital, services and people." https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/free-movement-of-goods.html https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/free-mov... > "The single market seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and people, known collectively as the "four freedoms" " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_single_market https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_single_market The EU would welcome the UK being closer aligned to the EU, trade-wise. But the UK cannot be in the single market without all four freedoms. Which the UK still rules out.
- realityking 2y ago
  The UK has a FTA with the EU. What they don’t have is access to the single market or a customs union.
- account42 2y ago
  Yet those people are not at all concerned with free movement of non-European "refugees" now.

kergonath 2y ago

> Let's make our market as large and attractive as possible! That would be the rational and sensible solution. This may be why it’s unlikely to happen. I would be happy to be wrong.

wouldbecouldbe 2y ago
If only it was so simple, there are of course many conflicting interests in Europe, with certain countries who are more export oriented for instance benefiting from a weak Euro and others from a stronger Euro etc.
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  But the EU is a single market.
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    A single one on paper but a heavily divided one in practice where every country wants to be king or at least backstab everyone else to get what it wants.
    - ffsm8 2y ago
      I sometimes wish we could abolish our nations and replace the current treaties with a voluntary merge of all participating countries, making everyone simply citizens, throwing out all national law books and replacing it with a single Continental one. Won't happen without a war - so hopefully not within my lifetime, but playing make believe is fun sometimes.
      - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
        How would a war in Europe unite people under one leadership? See the regions that have been ceded and annexed post WW1 and post WW2, they still have beef with the new host countries bickering about regional autonomy. You can conquer land, but conquering people is a lot more difficult.