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While I do find it an interesting exercise to reflect over my own choices of products and services and consider how I could divest myself from relying on ones p

by zppln 2y ago

While I do find it an interesting exercise to reflect over my own choices of products and services and consider how I could divest myself from relying on ones provided by US companies (and I do agree Europe is too reliant on the US in some regards), it is a bit sad to see how quickly things are spiraling here. People really love to have a clear enemy...

Yeul 2y ago
If you walk into a European supermarket, fashion store or MediaMarkt there is very little coming from the US. The giant container ships are coming from the East not the West.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  The chips and software in a lot of those products are coming from the US, even if the final products are manufactured in the East. The US makes the biggest margins from valuable IP and software services, not from mass produced widgets coming in shipping containers.
  - BlackFly 2y ago
    Chips made with Dutch chip fabrication technology to English chip designs... The software situation is grim but maybe open source somewhat ameliorates that...
    - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
      >Chips made with Dutch chip fabrication technology Using american EUV light sources....this train of who makes what in the supply chain can go on forever, the point is who's making the highest margins from the end product and it's not ASML nor ARM but Nvidia, AMD, Qualcomm, Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc. Hence my point that while EU has some IP, its value is dwarfed by the IP the US makes. Just look at market cap of US vs European tech sector. It's not even a competition. ASML can't offset that. I think Apple has enough cash in the bank to buy ASML if they wanted to.
      - BlackFly 2y ago
        The profits aren't the point. The questions that Europeans are asking themselves as shown in the featured article is how far away they are from independence from an untrustworthy trading partner.
- zppln 2y ago
  Sure. My microwave from 1988 is about the only thing made in the US in my home (interstingly an Electrolux). However, every purchase I make is with a Visa card. Most services I use are American. And as I'm typing this... anyone know a European alternative to SwiftKey? :P
  - simongray 2y ago
    > anyone know a European alternative to SwiftKey? :P Sadly, SwiftKey is/was actually a UK company that was acquired by Microsoft. Most successful European tech start-ups seem to end up being acquired by one of the American tech giants. Perhaps this is will be ending now.
  - lentil_soup 2y ago
    Electrolux is Swedish though. Or you mean it was actually built in the US but sold by Electrolux?
    - zppln 2y ago
      Built in the US and sold by Electrolux, yes.
ccppurcell 2y ago
I'd always rather, if possible, give my money to a company that pays their tax where I do. That's simple self interest.
- Asraelite 2y ago
  Self interest is not something to be proud of.
  - throaway1989 2y ago
    It is when its the most ethical choice.
    - Asraelite 2y ago
      When the actions you would take if you were acting entirely out of self interest and the actions that are the most ethical align with each other, then it's okay to take those actions, which is the case here and that's fine. I just mean that the primary reason shouldn't be self interest.
tuetuopay 2y ago
Well, it's not really to have a clear enemy. It's an effort to avoid having one. The day the US drops the Cloud Act would be the death of all European CSPs. Until then, cloud offerings not subject to it will thrive, and the US will be seen as hostile. And for all other subjects, it's a simple matter of not putting all of your eggs in the same basket. Having privileged trade partners is a good thing, but it becomes a bad one when it's a partner (singular). Today, the US has full power on Europe's tech landscape, which is concerning, even if it's a friend country. Oh, and I say a "friend country", but given the latest announcements where the US Govt. clearly targets Europe and wants to sanction it (e.g. tariffs on French exports), the friend is turning around. TL;DR today Europe does not see the US as an enemy. But it does everything for it to never happen, and this include reducing the dependency on the US.
dns_snek 2y ago
I don't think anyone loves this but it's the most rational response to the threats made by the US government against its former allies.
ramchip 2y ago
The US is threatening to take my home country by force and subjugate us. Maybe that context helps understand?
Al-Khwarizmi 2y ago
You don't need an enemy for this sort of campaign to make sense. It should be common sense to prefer local products, and even more so to avoid extreme dependencies like the one most of the West has on American tech companies. In my view, we (Europe) have long been acting foolishly by passively sitting in the back seat and allowing the US to drive for us, thereby creating a radical dependency. This wouldn't be healthy even if the US were the most loyal ally. What Trump's antics are doing is trigger a return to what should have always been the norm.
throaway1989 2y ago
Trump isn't really giving anyone the choice with talking about annexing its allies. You seem to be blaming the victim here.

by zppln 2y ago

Yeul 2y ago

If you walk into a European supermarket, fashion store or MediaMarkt there is very little coming from the US. The giant container ships are coming from the East not the West.

FirmwareBurner 2y ago
The chips and software in a lot of those products are coming from the US, even if the final products are manufactured in the East. The US makes the biggest margins from valuable IP and software services, not from mass produced widgets coming in shipping containers.
- BlackFly 2y ago
  Chips made with Dutch chip fabrication technology to English chip designs... The software situation is grim but maybe open source somewhat ameliorates that...
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    >Chips made with Dutch chip fabrication technology Using american EUV light sources....this train of who makes what in the supply chain can go on forever, the point is who's making the highest margins from the end product and it's not ASML nor ARM but Nvidia, AMD, Qualcomm, Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc. Hence my point that while EU has some IP, its value is dwarfed by the IP the US makes. Just look at market cap of US vs European tech sector. It's not even a competition. ASML can't offset that. I think Apple has enough cash in the bank to buy ASML if they wanted to.
    - BlackFly 2y ago
      The profits aren't the point. The questions that Europeans are asking themselves as shown in the featured article is how far away they are from independence from an untrustworthy trading partner.
zppln 2y ago
Sure. My microwave from 1988 is about the only thing made in the US in my home (interstingly an Electrolux). However, every purchase I make is with a Visa card. Most services I use are American. And as I'm typing this... anyone know a European alternative to SwiftKey? :P
- simongray 2y ago
  > anyone know a European alternative to SwiftKey? :P Sadly, SwiftKey is/was actually a UK company that was acquired by Microsoft. Most successful European tech start-ups seem to end up being acquired by one of the American tech giants. Perhaps this is will be ending now.
- lentil_soup 2y ago
  Electrolux is Swedish though. Or you mean it was actually built in the US but sold by Electrolux?
  - zppln 2y ago
    Built in the US and sold by Electrolux, yes.

ccppurcell 2y ago

I'd always rather, if possible, give my money to a company that pays their tax where I do. That's simple self interest.

Asraelite 2y ago
Self interest is not something to be proud of.
- throaway1989 2y ago
  It is when its the most ethical choice.
  - Asraelite 2y ago
    When the actions you would take if you were acting entirely out of self interest and the actions that are the most ethical align with each other, then it's okay to take those actions, which is the case here and that's fine. I just mean that the primary reason shouldn't be self interest.

tuetuopay 2y ago

Well, it's not really to have a clear enemy. It's an effort to avoid having one. The day the US drops the Cloud Act would be the death of all European CSPs. Until then, cloud offerings not subject to it will thrive, and the US will be seen as hostile. And for all other subjects, it's a simple matter of not putting all of your eggs in the same basket. Having privileged trade partners is a good thing, but it becomes a bad one when it's a partner (singular). Today, the US has full power on Europe's tech landscape, which is concerning, even if it's a friend country. Oh, and I say a "friend country", but given the latest announcements where the US Govt. clearly targets Europe and wants to sanction it (e.g. tariffs on French exports), the friend is turning around. TL;DR today Europe does not see the US as an enemy. But it does everything for it to never happen, and this include reducing the dependency on the US.

dns_snek 2y ago

I don't think anyone loves this but it's the most rational response to the threats made by the US government against its former allies.

ramchip 2y ago

The US is threatening to take my home country by force and subjugate us. Maybe that context helps understand?

Al-Khwarizmi 2y ago

You don't need an enemy for this sort of campaign to make sense. It should be common sense to prefer local products, and even more so to avoid extreme dependencies like the one most of the West has on American tech companies. In my view, we (Europe) have long been acting foolishly by passively sitting in the back seat and allowing the US to drive for us, thereby creating a radical dependency. This wouldn't be healthy even if the US were the most loyal ally. What Trump's antics are doing is trigger a return to what should have always been the norm.

throaway1989 2y ago

Trump isn't really giving anyone the choice with talking about annexing its allies. You seem to be blaming the victim here.