5 ms·

Ukraine was invited. Stop lying.

genewitch 2y ago
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said his country would not accept any outcome from the talks since Kyiv didn’t take part, and he postponed his own trip to the kingdom scheduled for Wednesday. every article, when directly quoting, uses weasel words like this. "Ukraine" decided they didn't want to participate because Europe wasn't involved, or Ukraine "didn't get a paper invitation". even though Zelenskyy was supposed to be in country at the time, he decided not to. I will source the actual facts later, but keep downvoting stuff you don't like. Downvote this comment too, here, i'll help: Russia was promised by the US that NATO would not expand. by someone named Baker. Stuff shifted, but under no circumstances was russia going to let Ukraine "join NATO". When Ukraine started saying they were in talks to join NATO and get their own nukes, russia perked up and started fucking with the border. Russia warned Ukraine about the murders occuring in "ethnically" russian "speaking" areas of ukraine, near the border. I bet you can name them. Russia waited eight years to actually respond to this injustice, and it was after Ukraine started talking about joining NATO. Again. So if you are pragmatic, and you don't want an all out war in europe, you withdraw the US support for NATO. Simple as. Now you don't get to threaten russia with US forces anymore. The US doesn't want to fight Russia, and certainly not for a leader that "loses" hundreds of billions of dollars. "whoops, we can't find half of it" is bad enough when it's an amazon order, it's a lot different when you're talking about sending nearly 400,000,000,000.00 USD to ... Ukraine. The thing that gets me though, is does anyone really believe this is all russia is capable of? moving a front line 10 meters, or a kilometer? Europe needs to stop prepping for a war, because Europe is the most war-hungry population on the planet, historically. They can't help themselves. The rest of the world is about to find out what it's like to not have the US backing up your stupid decisions. We, as taxpayers, are tired of paying for the EU experiment, for sabre rattling from the UK and France and Germany. It boils down to the need to "read between the lines" and not just accept any article put forth in the last 4 years. there is a lot more nuance than "orange man bad" and "Comedian War Hero", ok?
- jxjnskkzxxhx 2y ago
  > Russia was promised by the US that NATO would not expand. by someone named Baker This is Russian propaganda. Russia claims this was promised verbally. Surely if this was something that Russia wanted why didn't they demand in writing, like they did about many other concessions made to them? The answer is that Putin made that up. It never happened.
  - koonsolo 2y ago
    When people state this obvious lie, I always ask: So which NATO member states voted for not expanding to the east? Same with the Ukraine "coup", I always ask: So which dictator did they install in 2014?
    - riehwvfbk 2y ago
      When a group of Americans were mad that their preferred candidate didn't win and stormed the Capitol, were they heroes or traitors? When a group of Ukrainians did the same, why does your answer flip?
      - jxjnskkzxxhx 2y ago
        Trump lost fairly, so storming the capitol is treason. Yanukovich didn't win fairly, so removing him is warranted. The answer flips because the situations are the opposite.
        riehwvfbk 2y ago
        The people who stormed the Capitol didn't think Trump lost fairly. So the real difference is whether they succeeded. Had the Capitol protesters succeeded, they would have made the media feed people like you and I their narrative and make sure we saw them as freedom fighters. I'm sure you'll disagree with the above, so here's a thought experiment. What would the Euromaidan protesters be called if they had lost?
genewitch 2y ago
https://noagendaassets.com/enc/1740092407.97_retirednationaldefencememberandrewrasiulisctv-2-ukrainewasinvitedotthetalksinsa.mp3 https://noagendaassets.com/enc/1740092407.97_retirednational... "it depends on what story you read" - which is what i alluded to in my other comment. You have to choose to believe Zelenskyy, who isn't acting like someone who wants the war to end, or not. That's it. It is possible there was "miscommunication" - as that's what they're blaming the White House Zelenskyy meeting a couple weeks ago on. But Zelenskyy was supposed to be in Saudi Arabia at that time, and that's why the talks were planned for that date. the whole "no paper invitation, and we don't want to participate if Russia is going to be present" is quoted in several stories. So which is it, they don't want to participate, or they weren't invited? And in that clip it is explained that Kellog nearly immediately went to Kyiv to keep communication open. I get the feeling that people merely don't like the way this is playing out, and that somehow gives them the right to make claims on shaky evidence. i think that there is a lot of nuance to this ukraine thing, and a lot of the problem can be directly blamed on the US. Lindy Hop and McCain in Ukraine in 2016, setting up a proxy war: https://noagendaassets.com/enc/1740092403.145_redux2016lindseygrahamjohnmccaininukraineindecember2016preparingforaproxywarwithrussia.mp3 https://noagendaassets.com/enc/1740092403.145_redux2016linds... There are factions in the US that are warmongers, and a lot of americans don't like that. We don't want to be the ire of the world by constantly meddling in affairs. "strategic deployments" and "Strategic bases" and all this, yeah. We should have stopped. I don't even know if we can extricate ourselves without completely destablizing the global economy and "peace" - but i think we oughtta try.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said his country would not accept any outcome from the talks since Kyiv didn’t take part, and he postponed his own trip to the kingdom scheduled for Wednesday. every article, when directly quoting, uses weasel words like this. "Ukraine" decided they didn't want to participate because Europe wasn't involved, or Ukraine "didn't get a paper invitation". even though Zelenskyy was supposed to be in country at the time, he decided not to. I will source the actual facts later, but keep downvoting stuff you don't like. Downvote this comment too, here, i'll help: Russia was promised by the US that NATO would not expand. by someone named Baker. Stuff shifted, but under no circumstances was russia going to let Ukraine "join NATO". When Ukraine started saying they were in talks to join NATO and get their own nukes, russia perked up and started fucking with the border. Russia warned Ukraine about the murders occuring in "ethnically" russian "speaking" areas of ukraine, near the border. I bet you can name them. Russia waited eight years to actually respond to this injustice, and it was after Ukraine started talking about joining NATO. Again. So if you are pragmatic, and you don't want an all out war in europe, you withdraw the US support for NATO. Simple as. Now you don't get to threaten russia with US forces anymore. The US doesn't want to fight Russia, and certainly not for a leader that "loses" hundreds of billions of dollars. "whoops, we can't find half of it" is bad enough when it's an amazon order, it's a lot different when you're talking about sending nearly 400,000,000,000.00 USD to ... Ukraine. The thing that gets me though, is does anyone really believe this is all russia is capable of? moving a front line 10 meters, or a kilometer? Europe needs to stop prepping for a war, because Europe is the most war-hungry population on the planet, historically. They can't help themselves. The rest of the world is about to find out what it's like to not have the US backing up your stupid decisions. We, as taxpayers, are tired of paying for the EU experiment, for sabre rattling from the UK and France and Germany. It boils down to the need to "read between the lines" and not just accept any article put forth in the last 4 years. there is a lot more nuance than "orange man bad" and "Comedian War Hero", ok?

jxjnskkzxxhx 2y ago
> Russia was promised by the US that NATO would not expand. by someone named Baker This is Russian propaganda. Russia claims this was promised verbally. Surely if this was something that Russia wanted why didn't they demand in writing, like they did about many other concessions made to them? The answer is that Putin made that up. It never happened.
- koonsolo 2y ago
  When people state this obvious lie, I always ask: So which NATO member states voted for not expanding to the east? Same with the Ukraine "coup", I always ask: So which dictator did they install in 2014?
  - riehwvfbk 2y ago
    When a group of Americans were mad that their preferred candidate didn't win and stormed the Capitol, were they heroes or traitors? When a group of Ukrainians did the same, why does your answer flip?
    - jxjnskkzxxhx 2y ago
      Trump lost fairly, so storming the capitol is treason. Yanukovich didn't win fairly, so removing him is warranted. The answer flips because the situations are the opposite.
      - riehwvfbk 2y ago
        The people who stormed the Capitol didn't think Trump lost fairly. So the real difference is whether they succeeded. Had the Capitol protesters succeeded, they would have made the media feed people like you and I their narrative and make sure we saw them as freedom fighters. I'm sure you'll disagree with the above, so here's a thought experiment. What would the Euromaidan protesters be called if they had lost?

genewitch 2y ago

https://noagendaassets.com/enc/1740092407.97_retirednationaldefencememberandrewrasiulisctv-2-ukrainewasinvitedotthetalksinsa.mp3 https://noagendaassets.com/enc/1740092407.97_retirednational... "it depends on what story you read" - which is what i alluded to in my other comment. You have to choose to believe Zelenskyy, who isn't acting like someone who wants the war to end, or not. That's it. It is possible there was "miscommunication" - as that's what they're blaming the White House Zelenskyy meeting a couple weeks ago on. But Zelenskyy was supposed to be in Saudi Arabia at that time, and that's why the talks were planned for that date. the whole "no paper invitation, and we don't want to participate if Russia is going to be present" is quoted in several stories. So which is it, they don't want to participate, or they weren't invited? And in that clip it is explained that Kellog nearly immediately went to Kyiv to keep communication open. I get the feeling that people merely don't like the way this is playing out, and that somehow gives them the right to make claims on shaky evidence. i think that there is a lot of nuance to this ukraine thing, and a lot of the problem can be directly blamed on the US. Lindy Hop and McCain in Ukraine in 2016, setting up a proxy war: https://noagendaassets.com/enc/1740092403.145_redux2016lindseygrahamjohnmccaininukraineindecember2016preparingforaproxywarwithrussia.mp3 https://noagendaassets.com/enc/1740092403.145_redux2016linds... There are factions in the US that are warmongers, and a lot of americans don't like that. We don't want to be the ire of the world by constantly meddling in affairs. "strategic deployments" and "Strategic bases" and all this, yeah. We should have stopped. I don't even know if we can extricate ourselves without completely destablizing the global economy and "peace" - but i think we oughtta try.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]