6 ms·

Tesla is flailing in China and the rapid rise of BYD is to blame

7 points by zfg 2y ago

Someone 2y ago
FTA: “in China, disappointing shipments have more to do with a narrow and dated lineup, particularly in the face of up-to-date and more exciting offerings from BYD and others.”* So, BYD is to blame because they make more desirable products? I would put that on Tesla because of they offer only the same few models as a few years ago.
re-thc 2y ago
Is this a China specific problem? They're flailing everywhere. Everyone is catching up.
- defrost 2y ago
  China is ground zero for a seemingly insane variety of BYD (and other) eVehicle variations; pop fashion VW Beetle and mini minor knockoffs, luxury cars, .. it's like the madlib phone market, endless. China is the place that really makes the Tesla family look biege.
- palata 2y ago
  It feels like they're flailing in China because the competition is now better. They're flailing everywhere else because they are now associated with Musk and his nazi salutes.
  - re-thc 2y ago
    > It feels like they're flailing in China because the competition is now better. There is BYD and other brands (Chinese or not) in places outside of China. Just like how Tesla is not USA only. > They're flailing everywhere else because they are now associated with Musk and his nazi salutes How do we go assuming that "everywhere else" cares about this and China doesn't?
    - palata 2y ago
      Do you genuinely believe that Chinese consumers are not buying Tesla anymore because the US are becoming enemies of the West and Musk is overtly a Nazi? Feels more reasonable to me that they just buy Chinese brands because those are good alternatives. > How do we go assuming that "everywhere else" cares about this and China doesn't? The US being governed by fascists has a very big impact on a lot of the world. But I'm pretty sure China doesn't feel threatened the way the ex allies of US feel today. My point was that the main reason for the West to look for US alternatives is that the US has become a threat to them. The US hasn't become a threat to China in the last two months.
      - re-thc 2y ago
        > My point was that the main reason for the West to look for US alternatives is that the US has become a threat to them. The US hasn't become a threat to China in the last two months. Really? China just had their tariffs increased. That's not a thing? Also to Mexico and Canada, which impacts China (China would export there too and then into the US). China is also getting continued and additional sanctions, e.g. over AI and that's not a threat? > Feels more reasonable to me that they just buy Chinese brands because those are good alternatives. So why is that China-only is my point? Same applies everywhere. > The US being governed by fascists has a very big impact on a lot of the world. I still don't get what media you follow where there's impact to the world BUT China. If the world is impacted, then that impacts the buyers available (demand) to buy Chinese goods, so China is also impacted?
        palata 2y ago
        Wow it's pretty difficult to try talking with you. Not sure if you genuinely don't understand that there may be nuance in what I am saying, or if you're just manipulating for the sport. I am not saying that it does not impact China. I am saying that it is much less of a concern for them. Of course it's annoying, but China was not trusting and dependending on the US militarily 2 months ago. China is already prepared to fight against the US if necessary. Europe/Canada much less so, because until 2025 they considered the US as allies! Which means that there is a lot more resentment towards the US, and fear.

7 points by zfg 2y ago

FTA: “in China, disappointing shipments have more to do with a narrow and dated lineup, particularly in the face of up-to-date and more exciting offerings from BYD and others.”* So, BYD is to blame because they make more desirable products? I would put that on Tesla because of they offer only the same few models as a few years ago.

re-thc 2y ago

Is this a China specific problem? They're flailing everywhere. Everyone is catching up.

defrost 2y ago
China is ground zero for a seemingly insane variety of BYD (and other) eVehicle variations; pop fashion VW Beetle and mini minor knockoffs, luxury cars, .. it's like the madlib phone market, endless. China is the place that really makes the Tesla family look biege.
palata 2y ago
It feels like they're flailing in China because the competition is now better. They're flailing everywhere else because they are now associated with Musk and his nazi salutes.
- re-thc 2y ago
  > It feels like they're flailing in China because the competition is now better. There is BYD and other brands (Chinese or not) in places outside of China. Just like how Tesla is not USA only. > They're flailing everywhere else because they are now associated with Musk and his nazi salutes How do we go assuming that "everywhere else" cares about this and China doesn't?
  - palata 2y ago
    Do you genuinely believe that Chinese consumers are not buying Tesla anymore because the US are becoming enemies of the West and Musk is overtly a Nazi? Feels more reasonable to me that they just buy Chinese brands because those are good alternatives. > How do we go assuming that "everywhere else" cares about this and China doesn't? The US being governed by fascists has a very big impact on a lot of the world. But I'm pretty sure China doesn't feel threatened the way the ex allies of US feel today. My point was that the main reason for the West to look for US alternatives is that the US has become a threat to them. The US hasn't become a threat to China in the last two months.
    - re-thc 2y ago
      > My point was that the main reason for the West to look for US alternatives is that the US has become a threat to them. The US hasn't become a threat to China in the last two months. Really? China just had their tariffs increased. That's not a thing? Also to Mexico and Canada, which impacts China (China would export there too and then into the US). China is also getting continued and additional sanctions, e.g. over AI and that's not a threat? > Feels more reasonable to me that they just buy Chinese brands because those are good alternatives. So why is that China-only is my point? Same applies everywhere. > The US being governed by fascists has a very big impact on a lot of the world. I still don't get what media you follow where there's impact to the world BUT China. If the world is impacted, then that impacts the buyers available (demand) to buy Chinese goods, so China is also impacted?
      - palata 2y ago
        Wow it's pretty difficult to try talking with you. Not sure if you genuinely don't understand that there may be nuance in what I am saying, or if you're just manipulating for the sport. I am not saying that it does not impact China. I am saying that it is much less of a concern for them. Of course it's annoying, but China was not trusting and dependending on the US militarily 2 months ago. China is already prepared to fight against the US if necessary. Europe/Canada much less so, because until 2025 they considered the US as allies! Which means that there is a lot more resentment towards the US, and fear.