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I talk to corporate normies a lot, and what I see is this: - copilot as a "internal super google" is incredibly valuable. However, no company is so completely

I talk to corporate normies a lot, and what I see is this: - copilot as a "internal super google" is incredibly valuable. However, no company is so completely on the Microsoft train that copilot alone cam do what they want. Eg if they have Salesforce, then tough luck as copilot cant "see into" that. Moreover copilot today has strange limitations even inside the 365 stack, eg with OneNote. If microsoft can build a corporate-focused RAG that genuinely mops up all these kinds of sources, they will have a winner on their hands. - copilot as coder is a mixed bag. Good for jumpstarting tasks, but not reliable enough to be left unguarded, ie experienced devs still need to be paid to shepherd it. - everything else: not much of anything achieving real, deep value. Lots of anecdotal use cases like drafting emails. - scary as hell: the rise of shadow AI IT where corp users use chatGPT with company info, ignoring the risk that what they ask gets folded into training data. Proprietary info leakage is going to be a problem I think. None of the above makes any of the tools worth $30/mo per user. A super google copilot that genuinely captured everything across all silos and presented a unified interface (none of this cruddy plugin agent nonsense) would be worth north of $50/mo at any large corporation.

kaashif 2y ago
> None of the above makes any of the tools worth $30/mo per user. Are you sure? Doesn't the tool just have to save the user less than an hour a month for it to break even?
- croes 2y ago
  How many people do you license it for at how many really use it?
- rrr_oh_man 2y ago
  Most salaried staff aren’t fully productive every minute of the workday. Studies show a typical work week’s output can be achieved in 30 hours without losing productivity. I’ve seen this firsthand throughout my career. (That’s why I moved to working with remote-first, globally distributed teams over five years ago.)
protocolture 2y ago
>scary as hell: the rise of shadow AI IT where corp users use chatGPT with company info, ignoring the risk that what they ask gets folded into training data. Proprietary info leakage is going to be a problem I think. Microsoft, for all their faults, seems to have honed in on this issue explicitly. Enterprise Data Protection seems like its designed to massage this fear, whether it works or not who knows.
- soupfordummies 2y ago
  Except ChatGPT dot com somehow gives much better results--even without signing into an account!-- than does Copilot. I thought it was pretty much the same model under the hood but the results speak for themselves.
  - protocolture 2y ago
    I agree completely. I was remarking only on the data protection.
anon7000 2y ago
> everything else: not much of anything achieving real, deep value. Lots of anecdotal use cases like drafting emails. Well, this is what people are missing IMO. Yeah, general purpose chatbots can’t solve advanced problems. However, models and pipelines (using similar technology as chabots) specifically built for certain tasks can achieve really incredible results — like in the area of protein folding (https://youtu.be/P_fHJIYENdI https://youtu.be/P_fHJIYENdI) I think there is a lot of potential, but most companies are just slapping a chatbot (which uses some other company’s models) on their app and calling it a day. Very few are taking a deep look at how ML could actually solve real problems.
- nunez 2y ago
  Same as it ever was.
tbrownaw 2y ago
> - scary as hell: the rise of shadow AI IT where corp users use chatGPT with company info, ignoring the risk that what they ask gets folded into training data. Proprietary info leakage is going to be a problem I think. IT Sec has these things blocked for this reason. Probably made easier by only allowing company devices on the company network.
geysersam 2y ago
> None of the above makes any of the tools worth $30/mo per user. A super google copilot that genuinely captured everything across all silos and presented a unified interface (none of this cruddy plugin agent nonsense) would be worth north of $50/mo at any large corporation. I feel like you pulled those numbers out of thin air. $30 is something like 30 minutes of work or less in a typical office. Can a super-google that covers most of what you need (but not everything in every silo) save you 30 minutes per month? Yes for sure.
- rrr_oh_man 2y ago
  > $30 is something like 30 minutes of work or less in a typical Yeah, if by typical office you mean IT department in the US…
  - geysersam 2y ago
    Did you include other cost than salary in that estimate? Taxes, insurance, office space, maybe even support staff etc. It quickly becomes a lot.
    - rrr_oh_man 2y ago
      How does this change the equation on a fundamental level?
      - geysersam 2y ago
        It changes the equation because if costs per employee are high then $30 is relatively less in comparison.
nunez 2y ago
Glad to see another SE on here. Not enough of us on this site.

kaashif 2y ago

> None of the above makes any of the tools worth $30/mo per user. Are you sure? Doesn't the tool just have to save the user less than an hour a month for it to break even?

croes 2y ago
How many people do you license it for at how many really use it?
rrr_oh_man 2y ago
Most salaried staff aren’t fully productive every minute of the workday. Studies show a typical work week’s output can be achieved in 30 hours without losing productivity. I’ve seen this firsthand throughout my career. (That’s why I moved to working with remote-first, globally distributed teams over five years ago.)

protocolture 2y ago

>scary as hell: the rise of shadow AI IT where corp users use chatGPT with company info, ignoring the risk that what they ask gets folded into training data. Proprietary info leakage is going to be a problem I think. Microsoft, for all their faults, seems to have honed in on this issue explicitly. Enterprise Data Protection seems like its designed to massage this fear, whether it works or not who knows.

soupfordummies 2y ago
Except ChatGPT dot com somehow gives much better results--even without signing into an account!-- than does Copilot. I thought it was pretty much the same model under the hood but the results speak for themselves.
- protocolture 2y ago
  I agree completely. I was remarking only on the data protection.

anon7000 2y ago

> everything else: not much of anything achieving real, deep value. Lots of anecdotal use cases like drafting emails. Well, this is what people are missing IMO. Yeah, general purpose chatbots can’t solve advanced problems. However, models and pipelines (using similar technology as chabots) specifically built for certain tasks can achieve really incredible results — like in the area of protein folding (https://youtu.be/P_fHJIYENdI https://youtu.be/P_fHJIYENdI) I think there is a lot of potential, but most companies are just slapping a chatbot (which uses some other company’s models) on their app and calling it a day. Very few are taking a deep look at how ML could actually solve real problems.

nunez 2y ago
Same as it ever was.

tbrownaw 2y ago

> - scary as hell: the rise of shadow AI IT where corp users use chatGPT with company info, ignoring the risk that what they ask gets folded into training data. Proprietary info leakage is going to be a problem I think. IT Sec has these things blocked for this reason. Probably made easier by only allowing company devices on the company network.

geysersam 2y ago

> None of the above makes any of the tools worth $30/mo per user. A super google copilot that genuinely captured everything across all silos and presented a unified interface (none of this cruddy plugin agent nonsense) would be worth north of $50/mo at any large corporation. I feel like you pulled those numbers out of thin air. $30 is something like 30 minutes of work or less in a typical office. Can a super-google that covers most of what you need (but not everything in every silo) save you 30 minutes per month? Yes for sure.

rrr_oh_man 2y ago
> $30 is something like 30 minutes of work or less in a typical Yeah, if by typical office you mean IT department in the US…
- geysersam 2y ago
  Did you include other cost than salary in that estimate? Taxes, insurance, office space, maybe even support staff etc. It quickly becomes a lot.
  - rrr_oh_man 2y ago
    How does this change the equation on a fundamental level?
    - geysersam 2y ago
      It changes the equation because if costs per employee are high then $30 is relatively less in comparison.

nunez 2y ago

Glad to see another SE on here. Not enough of us on this site.