7 ms·

> On that note, he announced the carbon tax would soon be cancelled. I'm super-disappointed. The carbon tax is the most effective market-based mechanism for co

by nayuki 2y ago

> On that note, he announced the carbon tax would soon be cancelled. I'm super-disappointed. The carbon tax is the most effective market-based mechanism for controlling carbon dioxide emissions. The majority of economists support it, while political support trails behind significantly. Also, it's disingenuous to only focus on axing the carbon tax without mentioning that the quarterly refund to every resident of Canada will also be axed. The carbon tax is designed as a revenue-neutral program.

icegreentea2 2y ago
Carbon tax is toxic in Canada. Bashing it is like a quarter of the conservative's platform. There's an interview with the former Minister of Environment who pushed through carbon pricing (https://thetyee.ca/News/2025/02/11/Catherine-McKenna-Interview/ https://thetyee.ca/News/2025/02/11/Catherine-McKenna-Intervi... - note this is a thoroughly left leaning newspaper). She notes that she felt the government's failure to properly communicate/advertise about how carbon pricing works (and the refunds I imagine...) left the field wide open for the conservatives to own the messaging and framing. It is disappointing, but not at all unexpected.
- mitthrowaway2 2y ago
  For those of us not already determined to vote conservative, the carbon tax was one of the most compelling reasons to vote liberal. It was a well designed policy, even if many people don't understand it. Since they're both axing the tax anyway, that's one less differentiator which leaves me thinking maybe I should just choose based on who is more likely to pop the real estate bubble.
  - icegreentea2 2y ago
    Fair enough. But overall polling is pretty clear (this is from Jan 2024, but I imagine it's probably pretty similar now) https://abacusdata.ca/carbon-tax-pollution-pricing-carbon-action-incentive-payment-abacus-data-polling/ https://abacusdata.ca/carbon-tax-pollution-pricing-carbon-ac... 31% say they won't vote liberals regardless of carbon tax, 23% say they won't vote liberal because of, or partly because of carbon tax, 38% says their liberal support is carbon pricing agnostic, and 8% says carbon pricing makes liberals more attractive.
- snapplebobapple 2y ago
  It's more that it's a dumb idea in the face of other government regulations making it impossible to substitute (looking at you mostly zoning making walking, biking, and public transit best case being extremely inconvenient vs car and severely limiting accommodation choice to mostly very low density car required single family or a very small supply mostly ancient missing middle options or sky scrapers.) This makes the carbon tax need to be very high to change behavior which has knock on effects in the less easily substitutable stuff we all need like food transport that makes every noticeably poorer even when they are getting reimbursed for most to all of their primary carbon tax payments. It doesn't help that close by competitors don't have this tax and can incentivize various companies to leave for greener pastures. So it's not that it was improperly communicated, pretty much every Canadian understands what is going on. It's that it's dumb without a myriad of other changes to regulation at various other levels of government that should have been changed first. That the feds went at it alone meant it would inevitably be their downfall (all the other really questionable/borderline criminal things this government has done is bonus material)
  - rssoconnor 2y ago
    Can you explain what you mean by making every[one?] noticeably poorer when they have most to all of their payment reimbursed? (for the median individual it is more like "all to more" since the carbon credit is not capped at one's individual carbon tax payments)
    - snapplebobapple 2y ago
      I mean table 1 in the PBO's report on the subject: https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/publications/RP-2425-017-S--distributional-analysis-federal-fuel-charge-update--analyse-distributive-redevance-federale-combustibles-mise-jour#pb!ct https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/publications/RP-2425-017-S--distri... There was also estimates for earlier years than 2030 but I don't have the time to dig them up right now and they are also net negative. They don't have all their payment reimbursed because they pay carbon tax on all their purchases indirectly via buying goods whose price has inflated due to carbon tax on transport, inputs, etc.
timbit42 2y ago
He will be replacing it with a different carbon tax. Canada cannot not have a carbon tax as it is part of many of their trade agreements. Of course, this means the opponent party would also have to replace it with some other carbon tax.

by nayuki 2y ago

icegreentea2 2y ago

Carbon tax is toxic in Canada. Bashing it is like a quarter of the conservative's platform. There's an interview with the former Minister of Environment who pushed through carbon pricing (https://thetyee.ca/News/2025/02/11/Catherine-McKenna-Interview/ https://thetyee.ca/News/2025/02/11/Catherine-McKenna-Intervi... - note this is a thoroughly left leaning newspaper). She notes that she felt the government's failure to properly communicate/advertise about how carbon pricing works (and the refunds I imagine...) left the field wide open for the conservatives to own the messaging and framing. It is disappointing, but not at all unexpected.

mitthrowaway2 2y ago
For those of us not already determined to vote conservative, the carbon tax was one of the most compelling reasons to vote liberal. It was a well designed policy, even if many people don't understand it. Since they're both axing the tax anyway, that's one less differentiator which leaves me thinking maybe I should just choose based on who is more likely to pop the real estate bubble.
- icegreentea2 2y ago
  Fair enough. But overall polling is pretty clear (this is from Jan 2024, but I imagine it's probably pretty similar now) https://abacusdata.ca/carbon-tax-pollution-pricing-carbon-action-incentive-payment-abacus-data-polling/ https://abacusdata.ca/carbon-tax-pollution-pricing-carbon-ac... 31% say they won't vote liberals regardless of carbon tax, 23% say they won't vote liberal because of, or partly because of carbon tax, 38% says their liberal support is carbon pricing agnostic, and 8% says carbon pricing makes liberals more attractive.
snapplebobapple 2y ago
It's more that it's a dumb idea in the face of other government regulations making it impossible to substitute (looking at you mostly zoning making walking, biking, and public transit best case being extremely inconvenient vs car and severely limiting accommodation choice to mostly very low density car required single family or a very small supply mostly ancient missing middle options or sky scrapers.) This makes the carbon tax need to be very high to change behavior which has knock on effects in the less easily substitutable stuff we all need like food transport that makes every noticeably poorer even when they are getting reimbursed for most to all of their primary carbon tax payments. It doesn't help that close by competitors don't have this tax and can incentivize various companies to leave for greener pastures. So it's not that it was improperly communicated, pretty much every Canadian understands what is going on. It's that it's dumb without a myriad of other changes to regulation at various other levels of government that should have been changed first. That the feds went at it alone meant it would inevitably be their downfall (all the other really questionable/borderline criminal things this government has done is bonus material)
- rssoconnor 2y ago
  Can you explain what you mean by making every[one?] noticeably poorer when they have most to all of their payment reimbursed? (for the median individual it is more like "all to more" since the carbon credit is not capped at one's individual carbon tax payments)
  - snapplebobapple 2y ago
    I mean table 1 in the PBO's report on the subject: https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/publications/RP-2425-017-S--distributional-analysis-federal-fuel-charge-update--analyse-distributive-redevance-federale-combustibles-mise-jour#pb!ct https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/publications/RP-2425-017-S--distri... There was also estimates for earlier years than 2030 but I don't have the time to dig them up right now and they are also net negative. They don't have all their payment reimbursed because they pay carbon tax on all their purchases indirectly via buying goods whose price has inflated due to carbon tax on transport, inputs, etc.

timbit42 2y ago

He will be replacing it with a different carbon tax. Canada cannot not have a carbon tax as it is part of many of their trade agreements. Of course, this means the opponent party would also have to replace it with some other carbon tax.