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I still think about how he tried to cure cancer with crystals and then when that didn’t work he used his wealth to get residency in a different state to jump in

I still think about how he tried to cure cancer with crystals and then when that didn’t work he used his wealth to get residency in a different state to jump in line for a transplant and still died before his yacht got completed. I don’t misunderstand him at all. Especially the parking in handicap spaces part. Very easy to understand what kind of person he was through his actions. Perhaps we will never see eye to eye, and I feel posts like yours do deserve legitimate opposition as applicable.

colechristensen 2y ago
Ok, but more or less everyone is going to have a few things about them that you’re not going to like. When your whole life is up for scrutiny and you have unlimited resources, that’s how it is. If you had a billion dollars there’d be plenty of things people would criticize about you. And anybody else who did too.
pstuart 2y ago
There's plenty to not like about Jobs as a person, but Apple exists because of him (twice).
al_borland 2y ago
He didn’t jump the line, he just got in multiple lines.
- hansvm 2y ago
  Sure. On the one hand, everything adhered to the letter of the law. On the other, he used his money to get served before other people in an otherwise similar position would have been able to do. I personally view that as more of a failing in the system itself (why are there multiple lines to begin with when organ transport is a solved problem?), but it's not unreasonable to look at somebody exploiting that broken system and question their character.
  - auggierose 2y ago
    I know very few people who would't use their wealth to try to save their lifes, or that of their loved ones. It's kind of what wealth is for.
    - sapphicsnail 2y ago
      You know that's still bad right?
      - globular-toast 2y ago
        Why do you only pay the minimum amount of tax?
        elygre 2y ago
        > Why do you only pay the minimum amount of tax? You didn’t pose the question to me. And yet. Very many people don’t. We know there are constructs that would enable us to pay less, yet we choose to not pursue them. We are part of a society that enables us to be what we are, why should we strive to give as little as possible in return? (And yes, we also don’t send extra money. This is not a contradiction.)
        globular-toast 2y ago
        > We know there are constructs that would enable us to pay less, yet we choose to not pursue them. Only because you don't want to put the effort in to pursuing it. If I told you you could reduce your tax bill by 20% by spinning round in your chair one time I doubt you (or anyone else) would decline. Every entity generally seeks to take as much as they can and give back as little as they can. Individuals are generally a little less extreme, in my experience, with corporations being the worst.
        eesmith 2y ago
        I would not. My taxes are not a burden on me. While on the other hand, the local politicians have sought tax cut after tax cut, causing the library to limit services, the schools to cut down on teaching staff, infrastructure maintenance delays, less funding for local social services and city events, and more. My paying an extra 20% wouldn't fix things, as adding to the general budget would end up simply reducing taxes further, instead of everyone sharing the load. I hate that I've starting getting involved with local politics. I would rather code. Or, following your self-centric analysis, I would put the effort into raising my taxes by 20% since the collective benefits give me much more than what I can do individually.
dlivingston 2y ago
> Do I contradict myself? > Very well then I contradict myself, > (I am large, I contain multitudes.) When you speak ill of Jobs you are speaking on his moral character. When others (incl. myself) speak positively on Jobs, they are speaking on his design, business, and life philosophies, which are quite profound. [0] How you want to weigh the two is up to you, but it is not a contradiction to say someone contains both good and bad. [0]: https://youtu.be/cHuqhQmc4ok https://youtu.be/cHuqhQmc4ok
- brookst 2y ago
  The worst part of internet culture is the conflation of simplicity and reductionism. Comments are short, people have different contexts, so there’s an instinct to reduce everything to binary and fight to the death over the binary value. Worst of all is the false good person / bad person dichotomy that leads to great offense at any slight praise for someone the reader has decided is a bad person, or any slight criticism of someone the reader has decided is a good person. I can’t think of anything less fruitful than arguing over whether a public figure’s personal plus professional life makes them a 100% good person or 100% bad person. It’s strange the conversation ever happens, and yet it’s so incredibly common.
orangepanda 2y ago
Pancreatic cancer is known for being incurable, even in the best of circumstances, early diagnose or not. Having witnessed a family member go through the same thing, I understand Jobs's reaction of trying literally anything else.
- eecc 2y ago
  Sorry for your loss. Though SJ "He was diagnosed with insulinoma, which unlike other pancreatic cancers, is curable and can be treated with surgery." see: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-16157142#:~:text=He%20was%20diagnosed%20with%20insulinoma,his%20pursuit%20of%20alternative%20remedies. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-16157142#:~:text=He%20wa...
  - neom 2y ago
    Well, given apparently the posts in this thread reveal me to be an "manic crazy person" (or such I inferred) - I suppose I'll add to it then by saying: I too have read and understood Yogācārabhūmi-Śāstra. I hadn't thought much about it till today, but, I suspect, will do as Steve did. :) :)

colechristensen 2y ago

Ok, but more or less everyone is going to have a few things about them that you’re not going to like. When your whole life is up for scrutiny and you have unlimited resources, that’s how it is. If you had a billion dollars there’d be plenty of things people would criticize about you. And anybody else who did too.

pstuart 2y ago

There's plenty to not like about Jobs as a person, but Apple exists because of him (twice).

al_borland 2y ago

He didn’t jump the line, he just got in multiple lines.

hansvm 2y ago
Sure. On the one hand, everything adhered to the letter of the law. On the other, he used his money to get served before other people in an otherwise similar position would have been able to do. I personally view that as more of a failing in the system itself (why are there multiple lines to begin with when organ transport is a solved problem?), but it's not unreasonable to look at somebody exploiting that broken system and question their character.
- auggierose 2y ago
  I know very few people who would't use their wealth to try to save their lifes, or that of their loved ones. It's kind of what wealth is for.
  - sapphicsnail 2y ago
    You know that's still bad right?
    - globular-toast 2y ago
      Why do you only pay the minimum amount of tax?
      - elygre 2y ago
        > Why do you only pay the minimum amount of tax? You didn’t pose the question to me. And yet. Very many people don’t. We know there are constructs that would enable us to pay less, yet we choose to not pursue them. We are part of a society that enables us to be what we are, why should we strive to give as little as possible in return? (And yes, we also don’t send extra money. This is not a contradiction.)
        globular-toast 2y ago
        > We know there are constructs that would enable us to pay less, yet we choose to not pursue them. Only because you don't want to put the effort in to pursuing it. If I told you you could reduce your tax bill by 20% by spinning round in your chair one time I doubt you (or anyone else) would decline. Every entity generally seeks to take as much as they can and give back as little as they can. Individuals are generally a little less extreme, in my experience, with corporations being the worst.
        eesmith 2y ago
        I would not. My taxes are not a burden on me. While on the other hand, the local politicians have sought tax cut after tax cut, causing the library to limit services, the schools to cut down on teaching staff, infrastructure maintenance delays, less funding for local social services and city events, and more. My paying an extra 20% wouldn't fix things, as adding to the general budget would end up simply reducing taxes further, instead of everyone sharing the load. I hate that I've starting getting involved with local politics. I would rather code. Or, following your self-centric analysis, I would put the effort into raising my taxes by 20% since the collective benefits give me much more than what I can do individually.

dlivingston 2y ago

> Do I contradict myself? > Very well then I contradict myself, > (I am large, I contain multitudes.) When you speak ill of Jobs you are speaking on his moral character. When others (incl. myself) speak positively on Jobs, they are speaking on his design, business, and life philosophies, which are quite profound. [0] How you want to weigh the two is up to you, but it is not a contradiction to say someone contains both good and bad. [0]: https://youtu.be/cHuqhQmc4ok https://youtu.be/cHuqhQmc4ok

brookst 2y ago
The worst part of internet culture is the conflation of simplicity and reductionism. Comments are short, people have different contexts, so there’s an instinct to reduce everything to binary and fight to the death over the binary value. Worst of all is the false good person / bad person dichotomy that leads to great offense at any slight praise for someone the reader has decided is a bad person, or any slight criticism of someone the reader has decided is a good person. I can’t think of anything less fruitful than arguing over whether a public figure’s personal plus professional life makes them a 100% good person or 100% bad person. It’s strange the conversation ever happens, and yet it’s so incredibly common.

orangepanda 2y ago

Pancreatic cancer is known for being incurable, even in the best of circumstances, early diagnose or not. Having witnessed a family member go through the same thing, I understand Jobs's reaction of trying literally anything else.

eecc 2y ago
Sorry for your loss. Though SJ "He was diagnosed with insulinoma, which unlike other pancreatic cancers, is curable and can be treated with surgery." see: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-16157142#:~:text=He%20was%20diagnosed%20with%20insulinoma,his%20pursuit%20of%20alternative%20remedies. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-16157142#:~:text=He%20wa...
- neom 2y ago
  Well, given apparently the posts in this thread reveal me to be an "manic crazy person" (or such I inferred) - I suppose I'll add to it then by saying: I too have read and understood Yogācārabhūmi-Śāstra. I hadn't thought much about it till today, but, I suspect, will do as Steve did. :) :)