4 ms·

> Understanding a problem requires a holistic view of the larger system. It does, but the result is extremely uncomfortable. And the solving it will require a

by bsder 2y ago

> Understanding a problem requires a holistic view of the larger system. It does, but the result is extremely uncomfortable. And the solving it will require actions that are even more uncomfortable. You have to come to grips with the fact that there are monopolies at every single level. There is no inventory anywhere except bottom. There is no over capacity at any level. Consequently, supply and demand simply do not work. There is no "excess supply" to use to make extra profit by eating the extra demand. There is no upstart supplier who can absorb the extra demand. The big suppliers can ratchet up prices with zero consequences. What are you gonna do about it? > it’s scary to me that people lack the skills, the desire or incentives to understand and objectively seek understanding of what’s happening around us especially in highly charged US political landscape. They don't lack the skills. They have chosen to treat politics like sportsball rather than something to actively think about.

Marsymars 2y ago
> What are you gonna do about it? Substitute tofu?
- Centigonal 2y ago
  Even at $6.50/dozen, eggs are cheaper than tofu, which is $3 for 14 oz where I'm at.
  - absolutelastone 2y ago
    You could make it your self for the cost of soybeans basically. It's a cheap food sold as a gourmet item because it's rare. Like a lot of other fermented foods.
    - throwaway2037 2y ago
      > It's a cheap food sold as a gourmet item because it's rare. This statement is _entirely_ dependent upon where you live. If you have lots of East/SouthEast Asian immigrants in your community, it will be a regular commodity in any supermarket -- "ethnic" or not. Lots of readers here live in the Bay Area. A regular block of 300/400g fresh tofu is probably cheap as chips in their local supermarket. > Like a lot of _other_ fermented foods. Are you implying that tofu is a fermented food? It is not. (FYI: In Chinese food culture, there is something called fermented tofu [and even stinky tofu], but that is different than non-fermented tofu.)
      - absolutelastone 2y ago
        I meant "cheap" because it is easy to make from scratch. https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+I++make+tofu+from+scratch https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+I++make+tofu+from+scr... As for "other fermented foods" your final sentence admits it works as used in my post.
  - Marsymars 2y ago
    FWIW, Costco or low-cost Asian grocers are less than half that price for tofu. And in terms of protein, a dozen eggs is pretty close to the same amount of protein as 14oz of firm tofu... so my cost for tofu protein is like a quarter of my cost for egg protein. (Organic in either case, fwiw.)
  - smcin 2y ago
    Cottage cheese has 2.5x the protein content of eggs, and is currently cheaper. Or you can mix the two for the same taste but cost savings.
    - addicted 2y ago
      Cottage cheese is a terrible idea with bird flu floating around in dairy, complete chaos in the systems that are supposed to inspect these supply chains, and voluntary testing requirements that meant even when the inspection systems were not chaotic they were way behind the 8 ball. And for obvious reasons, bird flu infecting mammals is likely to be a greater risk to humans than that present in birds.
      - smcin 2y ago
        That's ridiculous. Cottage cheese is typically pasteurized, therefore safe. (We're not talking about cottage cheese from raw cow's milk). Cottage cheese is a fine idea, hysteria about bird flu is overdone, cottage cheese is healthier than processed meat, in the US. Remember Chipotle's multiple meat handling scandals that sickened 1100? You can't point to similar for cottage cheese.
      - bsder 2y ago
        > Cottage cheese is a terrible idea with bird flu floating around in dairy Almost all dairy in any normal supermarket has been pasteurized. I would say "all" but I'm sure there is at least a single exception somewhere even if I can't find it. Raw milk products at your "natural" farmer's market on the other hand ...
  - addicted 2y ago
    Get some dried lentils. They last a long time, are cheap as shit, and extremely healthy with the lowest dollar per gram of protein and couple it with a bunch of fiber and whole host of beneficial micronutrients.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Eggs are 9.99 per dozen where I am. Tri-tip is $3.99/lb and pork can often be had for $1.99. Hell, a month ago we bought a 20lb ham for $0.49/lb.
    - Centigonal 2y ago
      huh... we haven't gotten there yet in my neck of the woods, but where you are, pound for pound, boneless chicken meat is probably cheaper than chicken eggs.
gerdesj 2y ago
"The big suppliers can ratchet up prices with zero consequences. What are you gonna do about it?" If I was that bothered about eggs, I'd simply grow my own. Americans on average have way more space to mess around in than say most Europeans - the place is fucking huge. Chickens are very easy to "grow your own". I'm not an American and clearly you have managed to get your collective knickers in a twist over a non issue, which almost certainly means that there is a bigger picture and a rather more important issue that really needs fixing. Please stop fiddling whilst Rome burns.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  you cannot just wake up and decide to grow your own, it is regulated heavily :)
  - jay_kyburz 2y ago
    Here are my local laws, not too crazy. https://www.legislation.act.gov.au/View/di/2010-89/current/html/2010-89.html https://www.legislation.act.gov.au/View/di/2010-89/current/h...
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      sorry mate - I was referring to the USA without saying so :)
- genewitch 2y ago
  I have my own and I don't even like eggs that much. I do however like their noises, and for pest control, so I keep getting new birds. $33 for 6 birds, last month. They're not fully feathered yet.
  - Dban1 2y ago
    noise control?
    - 2y ago
sras-me 2y ago
>"The big suppliers can ratchet up prices with zero consequences. What are you gonna do about it?" I think one (uncomfortable) solution is this. Consumers should budget their expenses. So when the egg prices increase, they should consume less to maintain their budget for eggs, for example, a month. This will mean that when the companies increases prices, more of their stock will remain unsold, increasing their expenses stocking them to go up. This could also cause disruptions on their supply chain. This should force them to reduce prices.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  you said “budget” in the context of America. 93.98% of americans are not finacially literate enough to budget. this is by design…
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    It doesn't have to be so formal, and for most people it's more like "wow eggs have gotten expensive, I'll skip buying them this week" that is what I do, same with beef and anything else that just seems like it costs too much. Or I'll shop around, there are people selling eggs from their home-kept chickens at the side of the road for less than supermarket prices (I realize that doesn't scale, at least not quickly).
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      you are the 6.02% :) I do the same for EVERYTHING. my wife and I make a decent living but we drew lines when the prices started going up. we can afford it, not just eggs but also other things that have been price gouged in the last couple of years. issue is of course there are not enough of us to make a difference
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        There is no economic system that can accommodate a population that refuses to respond to prices. That said, I think your numbers are overly pessimistic. The critical part to remember is that people dont have to do the math and do the budgetary calculus. If they cant afford the eggs, they cant buy them.
teeray 2y ago
> They have chosen to treat politics like sportsball rather than something to actively think about. More like neo-religion.
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
What am I gonna do about it? I'm going to start buying from the small farm half a mile from me that has eggs in an honor box at the end of their driveway. There is no inventory anywhere except bottom? Fine. I'll go to the bottom. > They have chosen to treat politics like sportsball rather than something to actively think about. Not going to argue about that one...
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Nailed it. To disinter-mediate the monopoly vertical, you must source locally, and work together to ensure that local supply remains operational. You "step out" of the capture.
quacksilver 2y ago
>What are you gonna do about it? There are some other options: Substitute blood - https://nordicfoodlab.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/2013-9-blood-and-egg/ https://nordicfoodlab.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/2013-9-blood-... - I am not sure why people don't do this but maybe they are squeamish. Food grade blood is cheap and readily available from slaughterhouses and butchers. Buy some chickens
- titanomachy 2y ago
  > I am not sure why people don't do this I don't substituting blood for eggs is a widely-known option. I'd never heard of it before now, and I have a somewhat above-average amateur interest in cooking and food science.

by bsder 2y ago

Marsymars 2y ago

> What are you gonna do about it? Substitute tofu?

Centigonal 2y ago
Even at $6.50/dozen, eggs are cheaper than tofu, which is $3 for 14 oz where I'm at.
- absolutelastone 2y ago
  You could make it your self for the cost of soybeans basically. It's a cheap food sold as a gourmet item because it's rare. Like a lot of other fermented foods.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    > It's a cheap food sold as a gourmet item because it's rare. This statement is _entirely_ dependent upon where you live. If you have lots of East/SouthEast Asian immigrants in your community, it will be a regular commodity in any supermarket -- "ethnic" or not. Lots of readers here live in the Bay Area. A regular block of 300/400g fresh tofu is probably cheap as chips in their local supermarket. > Like a lot of _other_ fermented foods. Are you implying that tofu is a fermented food? It is not. (FYI: In Chinese food culture, there is something called fermented tofu [and even stinky tofu], but that is different than non-fermented tofu.)
    - absolutelastone 2y ago
      I meant "cheap" because it is easy to make from scratch. https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+I++make+tofu+from+scratch https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+I++make+tofu+from+scr... As for "other fermented foods" your final sentence admits it works as used in my post.
- Marsymars 2y ago
  FWIW, Costco or low-cost Asian grocers are less than half that price for tofu. And in terms of protein, a dozen eggs is pretty close to the same amount of protein as 14oz of firm tofu... so my cost for tofu protein is like a quarter of my cost for egg protein. (Organic in either case, fwiw.)
- smcin 2y ago
  Cottage cheese has 2.5x the protein content of eggs, and is currently cheaper. Or you can mix the two for the same taste but cost savings.
  - addicted 2y ago
    Cottage cheese is a terrible idea with bird flu floating around in dairy, complete chaos in the systems that are supposed to inspect these supply chains, and voluntary testing requirements that meant even when the inspection systems were not chaotic they were way behind the 8 ball. And for obvious reasons, bird flu infecting mammals is likely to be a greater risk to humans than that present in birds.
    - smcin 2y ago
      That's ridiculous. Cottage cheese is typically pasteurized, therefore safe. (We're not talking about cottage cheese from raw cow's milk). Cottage cheese is a fine idea, hysteria about bird flu is overdone, cottage cheese is healthier than processed meat, in the US. Remember Chipotle's multiple meat handling scandals that sickened 1100? You can't point to similar for cottage cheese.
    - bsder 2y ago
      > Cottage cheese is a terrible idea with bird flu floating around in dairy Almost all dairy in any normal supermarket has been pasteurized. I would say "all" but I'm sure there is at least a single exception somewhere even if I can't find it. Raw milk products at your "natural" farmer's market on the other hand ...
- addicted 2y ago
  Get some dried lentils. They last a long time, are cheap as shit, and extremely healthy with the lowest dollar per gram of protein and couple it with a bunch of fiber and whole host of beneficial micronutrients.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Eggs are 9.99 per dozen where I am. Tri-tip is $3.99/lb and pork can often be had for $1.99. Hell, a month ago we bought a 20lb ham for $0.49/lb.
  - Centigonal 2y ago
    huh... we haven't gotten there yet in my neck of the woods, but where you are, pound for pound, boneless chicken meat is probably cheaper than chicken eggs.

gerdesj 2y ago

"The big suppliers can ratchet up prices with zero consequences. What are you gonna do about it?" If I was that bothered about eggs, I'd simply grow my own. Americans on average have way more space to mess around in than say most Europeans - the place is fucking huge. Chickens are very easy to "grow your own". I'm not an American and clearly you have managed to get your collective knickers in a twist over a non issue, which almost certainly means that there is a bigger picture and a rather more important issue that really needs fixing. Please stop fiddling whilst Rome burns.

bdangubic 2y ago
you cannot just wake up and decide to grow your own, it is regulated heavily :)
- jay_kyburz 2y ago
  Here are my local laws, not too crazy. https://www.legislation.act.gov.au/View/di/2010-89/current/html/2010-89.html https://www.legislation.act.gov.au/View/di/2010-89/current/h...
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    sorry mate - I was referring to the USA without saying so :)
genewitch 2y ago
I have my own and I don't even like eggs that much. I do however like their noises, and for pest control, so I keep getting new birds. $33 for 6 birds, last month. They're not fully feathered yet.
- Dban1 2y ago
  noise control?
  - 2y ago

sras-me 2y ago

>"The big suppliers can ratchet up prices with zero consequences. What are you gonna do about it?" I think one (uncomfortable) solution is this. Consumers should budget their expenses. So when the egg prices increase, they should consume less to maintain their budget for eggs, for example, a month. This will mean that when the companies increases prices, more of their stock will remain unsold, increasing their expenses stocking them to go up. This could also cause disruptions on their supply chain. This should force them to reduce prices.

bdangubic 2y ago
you said “budget” in the context of America. 93.98% of americans are not finacially literate enough to budget. this is by design…
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  It doesn't have to be so formal, and for most people it's more like "wow eggs have gotten expensive, I'll skip buying them this week" that is what I do, same with beef and anything else that just seems like it costs too much. Or I'll shop around, there are people selling eggs from their home-kept chickens at the side of the road for less than supermarket prices (I realize that doesn't scale, at least not quickly).
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    you are the 6.02% :) I do the same for EVERYTHING. my wife and I make a decent living but we drew lines when the prices started going up. we can afford it, not just eggs but also other things that have been price gouged in the last couple of years. issue is of course there are not enough of us to make a difference
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      There is no economic system that can accommodate a population that refuses to respond to prices. That said, I think your numbers are overly pessimistic. The critical part to remember is that people dont have to do the math and do the budgetary calculus. If they cant afford the eggs, they cant buy them.

teeray 2y ago

> They have chosen to treat politics like sportsball rather than something to actively think about. More like neo-religion.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago

What am I gonna do about it? I'm going to start buying from the small farm half a mile from me that has eggs in an honor box at the end of their driveway. There is no inventory anywhere except bottom? Fine. I'll go to the bottom. > They have chosen to treat politics like sportsball rather than something to actively think about. Not going to argue about that one...

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Nailed it. To disinter-mediate the monopoly vertical, you must source locally, and work together to ensure that local supply remains operational. You "step out" of the capture.

quacksilver 2y ago

>What are you gonna do about it? There are some other options: Substitute blood - https://nordicfoodlab.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/2013-9-blood-and-egg/ https://nordicfoodlab.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/2013-9-blood-... - I am not sure why people don't do this but maybe they are squeamish. Food grade blood is cheap and readily available from slaughterhouses and butchers. Buy some chickens

titanomachy 2y ago
> I am not sure why people don't do this I don't substituting blood for eggs is a widely-known option. I'd never heard of it before now, and I have a somewhat above-average amateur interest in cooking and food science.