5 ms·

I think you are using a very narrow definition of "nice beans". At one pound per cup in bean cost, you are doing some coffee equivalent of having a glass from a

I think you are using a very narrow definition of "nice beans". At one pound per cup in bean cost, you are doing some coffee equivalent of having a glass from a £500 champagne bottle or listening to music from a pair of £10k speakers. Amazing for sure, but not a reasonable floor for defining "nice". Normal premium beans are around €15 in a 450g bag over here, and I can't imagine they are all that much more expensive in the UK. If you buy in bulk, they will be a lot cheaper.

Arch-TK 2y ago
The actual premium beans are even more expensive. Yes at £20 per 350g I am paying slightly more than normal for "nice beans". But most places sell for no less than £10 per 250g of light roast. That's still 76p ($1) per shot. The only things going for less are darker roasts, supermarket coffee and blends.
- OJFord 2y ago
  Pact is £7.95/250g (or I think £8.95 to new customers) for the mid-tier (any roast) bags. House blend & premium tier are iirc £1 either side.
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    250g bags are only 70% of the size of a 350g bag. Also, they don't seem to offer anything except blends. Their actual more expensive coffee (which even then, it's unclear if this is a blend or not) is 14 pounds a bag, which... when you scale to 350g comes out to, unsurprisingly, about 20 pounds.
    - OJFord 2y ago
      Comment I replied to said 'no less than £10 per 250g' so I don't know why you're dismissing my response of a specialist (if not high end) supplier at as low as £6.95 in that quantity as irrelevant somehow.
      - Kirby64 2y ago
        The comment you replied to spoke of 10 lbs per 250g for a light roast. I haven't tried Pact personally, but just reading their marketing copy, I don't really have confidence that what they call a 'light roast' is truly a light roast by specialty coffee standards. For context, a few signs I see: * The way they even describe the tasting notes don't generally align with coffee selected for light roast suitability. Dark chocolate is rarely a note you see in a light roast. * Every single bean is described as '<roast level> roast with hints of <tasting note>'. Also, maybe pricing is better in the UK locally... but their website appears to advertise only their cheapest generic blends at 10pounds/250g. Stepping up to anything else is 11 or 14 pounds per bag.
  - Arch-TK 2y ago
    Pact isn't ultra high end. Its pretty middle (maybe a bit better) of the road as far as UK roasters go. Ultra high end would be Gesha or something equivalent. Those often go for fun prices like £28 (and that is still on the low end) for a 150g bag in the UK. That's £3.50 for a 19g shot, and if I was buying Gesha I would probably get a triple precision basket or a step down basket because I would want the absolute best chance of extracting well if I'm spending that much. My £1.10 shots are definitely above middle of the road. Maybe you can call them high end. But they're not ultra high end and a single shot of ultra high end is definitely a lot more than $.25 as the initial comment in this chain seems to claim.
    - criddell 2y ago
      Coffee from Okinawa would probably be my pick for ultra high end. It sells for about $2 / gram (or 250g for $490). These producers don’t make much coffee each year and it sells out very fast.
      - Arch-TK 2y ago
        I heard of that one, have never tried it. I've always wondered how much of that is just the fact that it's some tiny farm vs actually tasting unique. I am spoiled for choice, I've modded my machine to be able to do electronically controlled pressure and flow profiles. I wouldn't even have a clue how to dial this in quickly enough to enjoy it (other than relying on Gagné's adaptive profile). If/when I'm ever in Okinawa I might see if there's a local cafe which has already dialled it in and can brew it for me. I think that's probably the most cost effective way of trying this coffee.
    - apelapan 2y ago
      I just want to chime back in and say that the post I replied to said "nice beans" at £1/cup and the post that was a reply to talked about the cost of beans for a "standard espresso". My intended angle was to say that I think "nice beans" for a "standard espresso" starts lower than that, for the coffe-appreciating general public. People like me, who thinks a Starbucks espresso is nothing special but decent enough. Anything better is nice beans! :-)
    - 2y ago
Kirby64 2y ago
> Normal premium beans are around €15 in a 450g bag over here, and I can't imagine they are all that much more expensive in the UK. If you buy in bulk, they will be a lot cheaper. Those are not premium beans, no offense. I agree, bulk pricing will be cheaper than retail, but premium bean pricing is still quite a bit more. If you want the equivalent of 'having a glass of 500 euro champagne', you need to look appropriately upscale. Here's an example of that, from April coffee roasters: https://www.aprilcoffeeroasters.com/collections/limited-coffee-beans-1/products/hacienda-la-esmeralda-panama-natural-gesha-buenos-aires?variant=50065165648218 https://www.aprilcoffeeroasters.com/collections/limited-coff... They sell a 250g of a natural Gesha coffee for 928 kr - or ~85 euros. That works out to ~6 euros per 18g of coffee if you were to serve this as an espresso. Most of the time, such coffee is used for pour overs, though.
- brailsafe 2y ago
  It's worth noting that while that's a fair comparison to the wine bottle, it's not necessarily true to say that either the bottle of wine or the Gesha coffee are inherently higher quality or more premium, they're just rarer or more expensive to produce and somewhat more novel than what a person would get most of the time. You can probably brew equally as satisfying and flavorful coffee by spending significantly less than half that rate, it just won't be as fancy feeling.
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    As someone who drinks quite a few of these incredibly weird coffees: I don’t agree. You can get some of the way there, but there are flavors and experiences that you won’t recreate with cheaper coffee. There just is no way to get as clear of flavor separation and striking flavors as you can get with some highly specialized coffee. Gesha coffee is well known, but you can also spend a lot on expensive processing techniques such as fermented coffees. As an example, there was a coffee I had for a period of time that tasted like cherries. Not just “hint of cherry”, I had multiple people tell me this coffee tasted like candy. Not coffee flavored cherry, just cherry. I’m currently drinking a coffee right now that tastes like red wine. Can you get a lot of the way there? Absolutely. A nice Ethiopian coffee naturally processed can be half or a third of the price of a Gesha and still have lots of fruity flavors. It’s true that some expensive coffee doesn’t live up to the hype much like expensive wine, but it’s unfair to say that the only thing expensive coffee is buying you is uniqueness.

Arch-TK 2y ago

The actual premium beans are even more expensive. Yes at £20 per 350g I am paying slightly more than normal for "nice beans". But most places sell for no less than £10 per 250g of light roast. That's still 76p ($1) per shot. The only things going for less are darker roasts, supermarket coffee and blends.

OJFord 2y ago
Pact is £7.95/250g (or I think £8.95 to new customers) for the mid-tier (any roast) bags. House blend & premium tier are iirc £1 either side.
- Kirby64 2y ago
  250g bags are only 70% of the size of a 350g bag. Also, they don't seem to offer anything except blends. Their actual more expensive coffee (which even then, it's unclear if this is a blend or not) is 14 pounds a bag, which... when you scale to 350g comes out to, unsurprisingly, about 20 pounds.
  - OJFord 2y ago
    Comment I replied to said 'no less than £10 per 250g' so I don't know why you're dismissing my response of a specialist (if not high end) supplier at as low as £6.95 in that quantity as irrelevant somehow.
    - Kirby64 2y ago
      The comment you replied to spoke of 10 lbs per 250g for a light roast. I haven't tried Pact personally, but just reading their marketing copy, I don't really have confidence that what they call a 'light roast' is truly a light roast by specialty coffee standards. For context, a few signs I see: * The way they even describe the tasting notes don't generally align with coffee selected for light roast suitability. Dark chocolate is rarely a note you see in a light roast. * Every single bean is described as '<roast level> roast with hints of <tasting note>'. Also, maybe pricing is better in the UK locally... but their website appears to advertise only their cheapest generic blends at 10pounds/250g. Stepping up to anything else is 11 or 14 pounds per bag.
- Arch-TK 2y ago
  Pact isn't ultra high end. Its pretty middle (maybe a bit better) of the road as far as UK roasters go. Ultra high end would be Gesha or something equivalent. Those often go for fun prices like £28 (and that is still on the low end) for a 150g bag in the UK. That's £3.50 for a 19g shot, and if I was buying Gesha I would probably get a triple precision basket or a step down basket because I would want the absolute best chance of extracting well if I'm spending that much. My £1.10 shots are definitely above middle of the road. Maybe you can call them high end. But they're not ultra high end and a single shot of ultra high end is definitely a lot more than $.25 as the initial comment in this chain seems to claim.
  - criddell 2y ago
    Coffee from Okinawa would probably be my pick for ultra high end. It sells for about $2 / gram (or 250g for $490). These producers don’t make much coffee each year and it sells out very fast.
    - Arch-TK 2y ago
      I heard of that one, have never tried it. I've always wondered how much of that is just the fact that it's some tiny farm vs actually tasting unique. I am spoiled for choice, I've modded my machine to be able to do electronically controlled pressure and flow profiles. I wouldn't even have a clue how to dial this in quickly enough to enjoy it (other than relying on Gagné's adaptive profile). If/when I'm ever in Okinawa I might see if there's a local cafe which has already dialled it in and can brew it for me. I think that's probably the most cost effective way of trying this coffee.
  - apelapan 2y ago
    I just want to chime back in and say that the post I replied to said "nice beans" at £1/cup and the post that was a reply to talked about the cost of beans for a "standard espresso". My intended angle was to say that I think "nice beans" for a "standard espresso" starts lower than that, for the coffe-appreciating general public. People like me, who thinks a Starbucks espresso is nothing special but decent enough. Anything better is nice beans! :-)
  - 2y ago

Kirby64 2y ago

> Normal premium beans are around €15 in a 450g bag over here, and I can't imagine they are all that much more expensive in the UK. If you buy in bulk, they will be a lot cheaper. Those are not premium beans, no offense. I agree, bulk pricing will be cheaper than retail, but premium bean pricing is still quite a bit more. If you want the equivalent of 'having a glass of 500 euro champagne', you need to look appropriately upscale. Here's an example of that, from April coffee roasters: https://www.aprilcoffeeroasters.com/collections/limited-coffee-beans-1/products/hacienda-la-esmeralda-panama-natural-gesha-buenos-aires?variant=50065165648218 https://www.aprilcoffeeroasters.com/collections/limited-coff... They sell a 250g of a natural Gesha coffee for 928 kr - or ~85 euros. That works out to ~6 euros per 18g of coffee if you were to serve this as an espresso. Most of the time, such coffee is used for pour overs, though.

brailsafe 2y ago
It's worth noting that while that's a fair comparison to the wine bottle, it's not necessarily true to say that either the bottle of wine or the Gesha coffee are inherently higher quality or more premium, they're just rarer or more expensive to produce and somewhat more novel than what a person would get most of the time. You can probably brew equally as satisfying and flavorful coffee by spending significantly less than half that rate, it just won't be as fancy feeling.
- Kirby64 2y ago
  As someone who drinks quite a few of these incredibly weird coffees: I don’t agree. You can get some of the way there, but there are flavors and experiences that you won’t recreate with cheaper coffee. There just is no way to get as clear of flavor separation and striking flavors as you can get with some highly specialized coffee. Gesha coffee is well known, but you can also spend a lot on expensive processing techniques such as fermented coffees. As an example, there was a coffee I had for a period of time that tasted like cherries. Not just “hint of cherry”, I had multiple people tell me this coffee tasted like candy. Not coffee flavored cherry, just cherry. I’m currently drinking a coffee right now that tastes like red wine. Can you get a lot of the way there? Absolutely. A nice Ethiopian coffee naturally processed can be half or a third of the price of a Gesha and still have lots of fruity flavors. It’s true that some expensive coffee doesn’t live up to the hype much like expensive wine, but it’s unfair to say that the only thing expensive coffee is buying you is uniqueness.