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It's honestly mind-blowing watching people desperately reach for anything, anything to explain the brand's sudden fall, out of nowhere. Even calling Elon's acti

It's honestly mind-blowing watching people desperately reach for anything, anything to explain the brand's sudden fall, out of nowhere. Even calling Elon's actions "antics" serves to downplay it. This isn't "antics" and it wasn't an "odd gesture" or whatever euphemism his supporters keep trying to use to downplay what happened. The CEO did a Nazi salute on stage. It's on video, and it's very, very obvious. But no, it's not that. Surely anything but that! It's definitely a vague, complex web of market dynamics that's the real cause of the brand's downfall.

hedora 2y ago
I think they were facing a rough 5+ years because their products aren’t great. Want a three row SUV? Tesla makes one, but it doesn’t have a steering wheel. They win on efficiency (miles / kwh), but that’s about it at this point. Other manufacturers have better interiors (knobs and build quality, car play / android auto), form factors, etc. Either that, or Elon would have been a serious problem for the company. Since they’re happening at the same time, it’s going to be rough.
ChocolateGod 2y ago
> The CEO did a Nazi salute on stage. It's on video, and it's very, very obvious. I think the only people who care about this are people who care about politics in the first place or didn't already like Elon, which isn't everyone and probably not the majority. Whilst Elon has some blame for Tesla's bad brand image, competition in Europe has made it so if you go Tesla your basically paying a premium for the brand and that's it, Tesla's in Europe iirc have self driving capability much less than the US.
- mcv 2y ago
  In Europe it's absolutely a majority. Musk is widely despised now. And this used to be a big market for Tesla.
- kivle 2y ago
  Apparently a nazi salute is a funny joke in the US. Very much not so in Europe.
  - tim333 2y ago
    It doesn't seem to be going down very well in the US either. One factor is that even if you think Musk was just mucking about or misunderstood, there is still the embarrassment of other people thinking your car choice endorses that.
  - Panino 2y ago
    Note that GP used "whilst" which is British English, and previous posts seem Euro-centric and talk about renaming "American football." So it sounds like this person is Europe's problem. The post had a number of grammatical errors too, so if "whilst" we're at it, should we criticize all of European education? Please don't post low-effort negative nationalism. It's cheap and the subject (the richest person alive is apparently a nazi) is a serious matter.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  I live in a red state. My Trump voting friends here call Elon Trump's nazi boy and in a very derogatory way. A lot of people are assuming Nazi behavior is way more accepted by Trump voters than it actually is (or maybe we're a different kind of red here than in the deep south).
  - forgetfreeman 2y ago
    Deep South reporting in. On the exceedingly rare occasion that white supremacists gather in public down here they're outnumbered somewhere between 10-100:1 pretty consistently. I'm not saying racial attitudes aren't what they are down here, but nobody much has any time for the Klan around these parts.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  > I think the only people who care about this are people who care about politics in the first place or didn't already like Elon, which isn't everyone and probably not the majority. ... You think the majority of people don't care about Nazi salutes? I mean, certainly if we're talking Europe, yeah, sorry, the majority of people do care about Nazi salutes. I think, also, that the kind of sneering, what would you call it, implausible deniability maybe, thing the US far-right like to do where they do something outrageously and then smugly deny that they did it, works less well in Europe (I'm not sure why Americans are so tolerant of it, tbh).
jtgym 2y ago
It seems to me there is a particular group downplaying Musk’s actions and Tesla’s volatility…the financial analysts / pundits, business news reporters and the investor class. They all have a vested interest in Tesla’s continued stock value. They downplay Musk’s political actions in favor of discussions of buying Tesla stock on the dip. They emphasize (or want all investors to believe) that Musk is an infallible business genius. If fooling everyone is genius, he’s succeeding…and so is the investor class.
rsynnott 2y ago
I mean, it's particularly unfortunate for Tesla that Musk decided to go crazy in a very public way _right now_ (he's been like this forever, of course, but until recently you had to be Very Online to notice; it wasn't on the news every day); it's at a time when it is, in any case, facing increased pressure from competitors. There's some aspect of a combination of factors; likely neither on their own would produce such a large effect.

hedora 2y ago

I think they were facing a rough 5+ years because their products aren’t great. Want a three row SUV? Tesla makes one, but it doesn’t have a steering wheel. They win on efficiency (miles / kwh), but that’s about it at this point. Other manufacturers have better interiors (knobs and build quality, car play / android auto), form factors, etc. Either that, or Elon would have been a serious problem for the company. Since they’re happening at the same time, it’s going to be rough.

ChocolateGod 2y ago

> The CEO did a Nazi salute on stage. It's on video, and it's very, very obvious. I think the only people who care about this are people who care about politics in the first place or didn't already like Elon, which isn't everyone and probably not the majority. Whilst Elon has some blame for Tesla's bad brand image, competition in Europe has made it so if you go Tesla your basically paying a premium for the brand and that's it, Tesla's in Europe iirc have self driving capability much less than the US.

mcv 2y ago
In Europe it's absolutely a majority. Musk is widely despised now. And this used to be a big market for Tesla.
kivle 2y ago
Apparently a nazi salute is a funny joke in the US. Very much not so in Europe.
- tim333 2y ago
  It doesn't seem to be going down very well in the US either. One factor is that even if you think Musk was just mucking about or misunderstood, there is still the embarrassment of other people thinking your car choice endorses that.
- Panino 2y ago
  Note that GP used "whilst" which is British English, and previous posts seem Euro-centric and talk about renaming "American football." So it sounds like this person is Europe's problem. The post had a number of grammatical errors too, so if "whilst" we're at it, should we criticize all of European education? Please don't post low-effort negative nationalism. It's cheap and the subject (the richest person alive is apparently a nazi) is a serious matter.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
I live in a red state. My Trump voting friends here call Elon Trump's nazi boy and in a very derogatory way. A lot of people are assuming Nazi behavior is way more accepted by Trump voters than it actually is (or maybe we're a different kind of red here than in the deep south).
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  Deep South reporting in. On the exceedingly rare occasion that white supremacists gather in public down here they're outnumbered somewhere between 10-100:1 pretty consistently. I'm not saying racial attitudes aren't what they are down here, but nobody much has any time for the Klan around these parts.
rsynnott 2y ago
> I think the only people who care about this are people who care about politics in the first place or didn't already like Elon, which isn't everyone and probably not the majority. ... You think the majority of people don't care about Nazi salutes? I mean, certainly if we're talking Europe, yeah, sorry, the majority of people do care about Nazi salutes. I think, also, that the kind of sneering, what would you call it, implausible deniability maybe, thing the US far-right like to do where they do something outrageously and then smugly deny that they did it, works less well in Europe (I'm not sure why Americans are so tolerant of it, tbh).

jtgym 2y ago

It seems to me there is a particular group downplaying Musk’s actions and Tesla’s volatility…the financial analysts / pundits, business news reporters and the investor class. They all have a vested interest in Tesla’s continued stock value. They downplay Musk’s political actions in favor of discussions of buying Tesla stock on the dip. They emphasize (or want all investors to believe) that Musk is an infallible business genius. If fooling everyone is genius, he’s succeeding…and so is the investor class.

rsynnott 2y ago

I mean, it's particularly unfortunate for Tesla that Musk decided to go crazy in a very public way _right now_ (he's been like this forever, of course, but until recently you had to be Very Online to notice; it wasn't on the news every day); it's at a time when it is, in any case, facing increased pressure from competitors. There's some aspect of a combination of factors; likely neither on their own would produce such a large effect.