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Neither the competition or the antics are the cause. The combination however has been highly toxic for Tesla, like Apple it had an initial lead and a high trus

Neither the competition or the antics are the cause. The combination however has been highly toxic for Tesla, like Apple it had an initial lead and a high trust factor due to size, experience and perceived tech lead. This also allowed them to charge a premium compared to the other makers. Elon single-handedly eroded most of the trust factor and now that people are looking at alternatives (and being happy), they'll notice that there isn't much of a reason to be paying the premium in 2025 (not like 5-10 years ago). The biggest question now is if they can ever recapture the position they held even with Elon gone or if they're yet another BEV automaker, trust as the saying goes is hard to gain and easy to squander (And even if Elon is gone, some of the previous halo goes with him but the antipathy cannot be gotten over with him in the reins, catch-22).

mcv 2y ago
I think it's pretty obvious that the antics are a bit part of it. It's a big part in how Musk is eroding the trust in Tesla, but more than that, a car is also an image, a feeling. A few years ago, Tesla was widely loved ajd many people hoped to buy one some day, including me. Now lots of people wouldn't want to be caught dead in one. And the real big factor are his support for Trump and his weird and destructive antics these past few months. There was competition a year ago, buy it's only now that sales are really falling off a cliff. I honestly don't think Tesla wil exist in a couple of years. Musk will have made the brand too toxic.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  It's honestly mind-blowing watching people desperately reach for anything, anything to explain the brand's sudden fall, out of nowhere. Even calling Elon's actions "antics" serves to downplay it. This isn't "antics" and it wasn't an "odd gesture" or whatever euphemism his supporters keep trying to use to downplay what happened. The CEO did a Nazi salute on stage. It's on video, and it's very, very obvious. But no, it's not that. Surely anything but that! It's definitely a vague, complex web of market dynamics that's the real cause of the brand's downfall.
  - hedora 2y ago
    I think they were facing a rough 5+ years because their products aren’t great. Want a three row SUV? Tesla makes one, but it doesn’t have a steering wheel. They win on efficiency (miles / kwh), but that’s about it at this point. Other manufacturers have better interiors (knobs and build quality, car play / android auto), form factors, etc. Either that, or Elon would have been a serious problem for the company. Since they’re happening at the same time, it’s going to be rough.
  - ChocolateGod 2y ago
    > The CEO did a Nazi salute on stage. It's on video, and it's very, very obvious. I think the only people who care about this are people who care about politics in the first place or didn't already like Elon, which isn't everyone and probably not the majority. Whilst Elon has some blame for Tesla's bad brand image, competition in Europe has made it so if you go Tesla your basically paying a premium for the brand and that's it, Tesla's in Europe iirc have self driving capability much less than the US.
    - mcv 2y ago
      In Europe it's absolutely a majority. Musk is widely despised now. And this used to be a big market for Tesla.
    - kivle 2y ago
      Apparently a nazi salute is a funny joke in the US. Very much not so in Europe.
      - tim333 2y ago
        It doesn't seem to be going down very well in the US either. One factor is that even if you think Musk was just mucking about or misunderstood, there is still the embarrassment of other people thinking your car choice endorses that.
      - Panino 2y ago
        Note that GP used "whilst" which is British English, and previous posts seem Euro-centric and talk about renaming "American football." So it sounds like this person is Europe's problem. The post had a number of grammatical errors too, so if "whilst" we're at it, should we criticize all of European education? Please don't post low-effort negative nationalism. It's cheap and the subject (the richest person alive is apparently a nazi) is a serious matter.

mcv 2y ago

I think it's pretty obvious that the antics are a bit part of it. It's a big part in how Musk is eroding the trust in Tesla, but more than that, a car is also an image, a feeling. A few years ago, Tesla was widely loved ajd many people hoped to buy one some day, including me. Now lots of people wouldn't want to be caught dead in one. And the real big factor are his support for Trump and his weird and destructive antics these past few months. There was competition a year ago, buy it's only now that sales are really falling off a cliff. I honestly don't think Tesla wil exist in a couple of years. Musk will have made the brand too toxic.

ryandrake 2y ago
It's honestly mind-blowing watching people desperately reach for anything, anything to explain the brand's sudden fall, out of nowhere. Even calling Elon's actions "antics" serves to downplay it. This isn't "antics" and it wasn't an "odd gesture" or whatever euphemism his supporters keep trying to use to downplay what happened. The CEO did a Nazi salute on stage. It's on video, and it's very, very obvious. But no, it's not that. Surely anything but that! It's definitely a vague, complex web of market dynamics that's the real cause of the brand's downfall.
- hedora 2y ago
  I think they were facing a rough 5+ years because their products aren’t great. Want a three row SUV? Tesla makes one, but it doesn’t have a steering wheel. They win on efficiency (miles / kwh), but that’s about it at this point. Other manufacturers have better interiors (knobs and build quality, car play / android auto), form factors, etc. Either that, or Elon would have been a serious problem for the company. Since they’re happening at the same time, it’s going to be rough.
- ChocolateGod 2y ago
  > The CEO did a Nazi salute on stage. It's on video, and it's very, very obvious. I think the only people who care about this are people who care about politics in the first place or didn't already like Elon, which isn't everyone and probably not the majority. Whilst Elon has some blame for Tesla's bad brand image, competition in Europe has made it so if you go Tesla your basically paying a premium for the brand and that's it, Tesla's in Europe iirc have self driving capability much less than the US.
  - mcv 2y ago
    In Europe it's absolutely a majority. Musk is widely despised now. And this used to be a big market for Tesla.
  - kivle 2y ago
    Apparently a nazi salute is a funny joke in the US. Very much not so in Europe.
    - tim333 2y ago
      It doesn't seem to be going down very well in the US either. One factor is that even if you think Musk was just mucking about or misunderstood, there is still the embarrassment of other people thinking your car choice endorses that.
    - Panino 2y ago
      Note that GP used "whilst" which is British English, and previous posts seem Euro-centric and talk about renaming "American football." So it sounds like this person is Europe's problem. The post had a number of grammatical errors too, so if "whilst" we're at it, should we criticize all of European education? Please don't post low-effort negative nationalism. It's cheap and the subject (the richest person alive is apparently a nazi) is a serious matter.