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This is clearly misinformation, and repeating it won’t make it true. He said «my heart goes out to you». Without a video of him saying that nobody would have b

This is clearly misinformation, and repeating it won’t make it true. He said «my heart goes out to you». Without a video of him saying that nobody would have blinked an eye at the contents of what he said. You know, content, the thing Martin Luther King said we should judge people by. This is a pretty bad problem (or «strategy») with the modern left. They imagine something into existence, either now, or more commonly in a vague future. They then base their political platform on these imagined or assumed things. They do this all the time. The Elon nazi thing is probably the most extreme and obvious case I’ve seen of this, and I’m honestly shocked to see the amount of people taking it seriously. The left should, like Bill Maher recently said, focus on providing a viable alternative instead of trying to see who can act the most unhinged.

deleted 2y ago
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wat10000 2y ago
Don’t be so damned gullible. These shitheads thrive on doing reprehensible stuff, and then giving it a stupid cover story so people like you go out and defend them for free. It was a “haha only serious” Nazi salute. It’s not “unhinged” to see what’s plainly visible.
ailun 2y ago
Nah. Not misinformation. Just other people aren't willing to give him the massive benefit of the doubt that you are. There's no point arguing with you about it, of course. But in context, watching the full video, seeing his opinions expressed on Twitter... surely you can see how people can come to the conclusion that they have. For you to act like it's 100% definitely misinformation rather than a judgement call is disingenuous to the extreme.
- josteink 2y ago
  > For you to act like it's 100% definitely misinformation rather than a judgement call is disingenuous to the extreme. I’ll go on the unpopular limb and say that anyone seriously considering the fact that any mainstream persona intentionally did a «Nazi» thing has been consuming too much traditional, commercial media who almost by definition thrives on controversy and clicks. Their core interest is not in facts or honest reporting. I don’t think HN is the most appropriate place for such discussions, but if anyone seriously wants to accuse Elon Musk of being a «Nazi», I would kindly request that they first define what they mean by that word in 2025, because to me that is honestly not very obvious. He’s pro Israel and want less government regulation. I’m no expert, but to me that seems anti-Nazi?
  - alabastervlog 2y ago
    You’d be surprised on the Israel thing. There are not-small sections of white supremacy and neo-Nazism who see Israel as the realization of the kind of ethnostate they think should be the norm. “Yes, hooray Israel! All the Jews we want to expel should go over there! It’s a model state!” To the rest of this, playing with Nazi shit to “trigger the libs” is a whole thing on the right, and I 100% think it’s what Elon was doing (and why we’ve seen more of it since, from others). The other explanations are bizarre (what the fuck is “my heart goes out to you”? The closest thing I can think of to that sort of gesture doesn’t risk this kind of confusion) and this kind of “trolling” is read as absolutely serious and a show of support by the worst elements of the right. For my part, play with Nazi shit, you’re a Nazi, and so’s anyone who keeps associating with you. Most of the right didn’t run away from this, so we’ve got a pretty serious Nazi problem now.
    - josteink 2y ago
      > Most of the right didn’t run away from this, so we’ve got a pretty serious Nazi problem now I appreciate the honest response, I really do. But right here is where I’ll have to go back to my original comment about imagining problems. You imagine he did something Nazi like. You imagined there are big swaths of right wing people supporting this imagined Nazi act. You imagine a big Nazi problem. And it could be all in your head. Listen to Bill Maher: Focus on becoming a viable alternative, rather than chasing crazy things. The world can only benefit from more viable options at the next election.
      - alabastervlog 2y ago
        It’s. On. Video. If this were literally the only issue, idk, maybe? But there’s also the broader plan they’re implementing, and the normalization of wildly illegal action from the executive. It’s authoritarianism top to bottom, and they said exactly what they’re aiming to do. I’m focusing on a lot of things, and the fact that Nazi salutes (it’s on video! He did it twice! Watch that again and tell me what would look different if that were in-fact what he’s doing. What the hell gesture even looks close to what he does, if not that? I find the denial of what we can all plainly see shocking, similar to attempts to deny what happened on January 6th which we watched live) are now “eh, it’s fine” for the Republican Party is not nothing. Like we’re a multifaceted coup attempt and an “if I lose to Hillary, the 2nd amendment folks can do something about it” in, and we’re in the middle of “shock and awe” (their words) against the government bureaucracy, firing of the people charged with preventing much worse and who did prevent that last time (IGs, generals), 40ish days out from the publicly stated deadline for agency reports on whether Trump should invoke the insurrection act, and the richest dude in the world Nazi salutes on stage twice and people are still going “IDK”. Gimme a fucking break. But yes the actual problem is I can tell what kind of gesture he very obviously made and find it repugnant. That’s the problem. Not that all the above is going on and people are still entertaining “he just meant ‘my heart goes out to you’, which one expresses with a firm grimace, a slap to the chest and quick extension of the arm, fucking exactly like a Nazi salute” as if it’s not obvious bullshit.
jazzyjackson 2y ago
The sieg hiel meme probably wouldn't have caught as much traction if he wasn't appearing at AfD rallies like the face of Big Brother
- josteink 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - rich_sasha 2y ago
    Not OP, but how about "remigration" of many people, but among them German citizens, "back" to their countries of origin, voluntary or otherwise? Their members have been making statements like, the Nazis weren't all that bad, a number of them were found to be parroting Nazi talking points, or quoting verbatim.
    - josteink 2y ago
      Germany is facing enormous stability problems unless it does something radical, not to mention total cultural erasure. Remigration sounds good even reasonable, within reason. I hope we can agree this is clearly not about genocide? In this regard the Nazi-comparison seems weird. «Their members» is too vague for me to opine on.
      - hedora 2y ago
        They support ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. The original goal of the Nazi concentration camps was relocating ethnic groups to help stabilize Germany and protect its culture. Your viewpoints are indistinguishable from those of a pro-Hitler German in the lead up to world war two.
      - rich_sasha 2y ago
        Hitler didn't start with genocidal ideas either, it was "remigration" under a different name too. DW has a nice little selection of quotes from senior AdD politicians. Some are simply about hostility to the EU but many are about violence against migrants: https://www.dw.com/en/afd-leaders-and-their-most-offensive-remarks/g-37651099 https://www.dw.com/en/afd-leaders-and-their-most-offensive-r... one select about shooting or gassing, whichever is more convenient, from their now former press officer. Another highlights that AfD uses some Nazi newspeak, on racial dilution.
nickthegreek 2y ago
I find the concept that the left is pulling this nazi stuff of their ass to a bad problem with anyone out there defending it. If someone accused me of giving a nazi salute, and then the nazis high five each other in the internet, I’d be releasing a statements that this was a complete misunderstanding. Nazi’s are losers and can fuck off. Then there wouldn’t even be room for this. But the man keeps finding himself questionable close to nazi adjacent shit far too often. It might be for lulz, but don’t be surprised when consumers back off your products.
alabastervlog 2y ago
Dude it’s on video. We can just watch it. This wasn’t an innocent gesture caught in an awkward still, it’s on video. I get that it’s also on video that he looked high as a kite at the event, but most people manage not to nazi salute when high, too.
- fsagx 2y ago
  Elon seems really unhinged, and there's so much to criticize without reaching for inflammatory labels. I don't understand the gesture. It's not something I see myself ever doing. But here's Tim Walz doing the exact same thing on video. Evidence of secret NSDAP membership? https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qdntrfPInBk https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qdntrfPInBk
  - alabastervlog 2y ago
    That’s pretty weird but that’s also not what Elon did. I just re-watched his in case my memory was faulty, and no, it’s simply a Nazi salute, straight-up.
  - yongjik 2y ago
    If this looks like the "exact same thing" Elon Musk did, have your eyes checked. Seriously. I literally clicked the link, spent 5 seconds, and it's a totally different gesture...?
smallerize 2y ago
Far left? https://www.wired.com/story/neo-nazis-love-elon-musk-nazi-like-salutes-trumps-inauguration/ https://www.wired.com/story/neo-nazis-love-elon-musk-nazi-li...
ryandrake 2y ago
Wow, I didn't have this on my bingo card for today, but this has got to be the most full-throated, impassioned defense and downplaying of an obvious Nazi salute I've ever read in my life. I tell ya what. Instead of trying to convince you of what you're wishing to be not true, try this: Pull up the video of the gesture he made, practice it at home, make sure you can duplicate it perfectly, and then go into work and do it in front of each person you meet, and come back here and tell us what happens.
scns 2y ago
His grandfather emigrated from Canada to South Africa after the fascist party he was a member of got banned.
- defrost 2y ago
  That's just one grandfather though. Albeit a full on out and out Hitler supporting grandfather. His other grandfather was a well respected senior government minister. ( Who defended aparthied tooth and nail in the white South African Government )
  - scns 2y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHSgVk84B0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHSgVk84B0 A little historical background.
    - defrost 2y ago
      I'm a bit older than that crowd, I remember first hand where they came from and read the long form Guardian article when it was written. Still, if you like youtube material, the lyrics to songs they all grew up with in SA are telling enough: e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIGnIvL18_4&t=31s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIGnIvL18_4&t=31s As the twigs were bent ...
tim333 2y ago
Compare Musk doing my heart goes out gesture https://x.com/kingore91/status/1884580205185954045 https://x.com/kingore91/status/1884580205185954045 to Musk doing the nazi like gesture https://x.com/iam_smx/status/1881583500991889729 https://x.com/iam_smx/status/1881583500991889729 I think there's an obvious difference.

deleted 2y ago

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wat10000 2y ago

Don’t be so damned gullible. These shitheads thrive on doing reprehensible stuff, and then giving it a stupid cover story so people like you go out and defend them for free. It was a “haha only serious” Nazi salute. It’s not “unhinged” to see what’s plainly visible.

ailun 2y ago

Nah. Not misinformation. Just other people aren't willing to give him the massive benefit of the doubt that you are. There's no point arguing with you about it, of course. But in context, watching the full video, seeing his opinions expressed on Twitter... surely you can see how people can come to the conclusion that they have. For you to act like it's 100% definitely misinformation rather than a judgement call is disingenuous to the extreme.

josteink 2y ago
> For you to act like it's 100% definitely misinformation rather than a judgement call is disingenuous to the extreme. I’ll go on the unpopular limb and say that anyone seriously considering the fact that any mainstream persona intentionally did a «Nazi» thing has been consuming too much traditional, commercial media who almost by definition thrives on controversy and clicks. Their core interest is not in facts or honest reporting. I don’t think HN is the most appropriate place for such discussions, but if anyone seriously wants to accuse Elon Musk of being a «Nazi», I would kindly request that they first define what they mean by that word in 2025, because to me that is honestly not very obvious. He’s pro Israel and want less government regulation. I’m no expert, but to me that seems anti-Nazi?
- alabastervlog 2y ago
  You’d be surprised on the Israel thing. There are not-small sections of white supremacy and neo-Nazism who see Israel as the realization of the kind of ethnostate they think should be the norm. “Yes, hooray Israel! All the Jews we want to expel should go over there! It’s a model state!” To the rest of this, playing with Nazi shit to “trigger the libs” is a whole thing on the right, and I 100% think it’s what Elon was doing (and why we’ve seen more of it since, from others). The other explanations are bizarre (what the fuck is “my heart goes out to you”? The closest thing I can think of to that sort of gesture doesn’t risk this kind of confusion) and this kind of “trolling” is read as absolutely serious and a show of support by the worst elements of the right. For my part, play with Nazi shit, you’re a Nazi, and so’s anyone who keeps associating with you. Most of the right didn’t run away from this, so we’ve got a pretty serious Nazi problem now.
  - josteink 2y ago
    > Most of the right didn’t run away from this, so we’ve got a pretty serious Nazi problem now I appreciate the honest response, I really do. But right here is where I’ll have to go back to my original comment about imagining problems. You imagine he did something Nazi like. You imagined there are big swaths of right wing people supporting this imagined Nazi act. You imagine a big Nazi problem. And it could be all in your head. Listen to Bill Maher: Focus on becoming a viable alternative, rather than chasing crazy things. The world can only benefit from more viable options at the next election.
    - alabastervlog 2y ago
      It’s. On. Video. If this were literally the only issue, idk, maybe? But there’s also the broader plan they’re implementing, and the normalization of wildly illegal action from the executive. It’s authoritarianism top to bottom, and they said exactly what they’re aiming to do. I’m focusing on a lot of things, and the fact that Nazi salutes (it’s on video! He did it twice! Watch that again and tell me what would look different if that were in-fact what he’s doing. What the hell gesture even looks close to what he does, if not that? I find the denial of what we can all plainly see shocking, similar to attempts to deny what happened on January 6th which we watched live) are now “eh, it’s fine” for the Republican Party is not nothing. Like we’re a multifaceted coup attempt and an “if I lose to Hillary, the 2nd amendment folks can do something about it” in, and we’re in the middle of “shock and awe” (their words) against the government bureaucracy, firing of the people charged with preventing much worse and who did prevent that last time (IGs, generals), 40ish days out from the publicly stated deadline for agency reports on whether Trump should invoke the insurrection act, and the richest dude in the world Nazi salutes on stage twice and people are still going “IDK”. Gimme a fucking break. But yes the actual problem is I can tell what kind of gesture he very obviously made and find it repugnant. That’s the problem. Not that all the above is going on and people are still entertaining “he just meant ‘my heart goes out to you’, which one expresses with a firm grimace, a slap to the chest and quick extension of the arm, fucking exactly like a Nazi salute” as if it’s not obvious bullshit.

jazzyjackson 2y ago

The sieg hiel meme probably wouldn't have caught as much traction if he wasn't appearing at AfD rallies like the face of Big Brother

josteink 2y ago
[flagged]
- rich_sasha 2y ago
  Not OP, but how about "remigration" of many people, but among them German citizens, "back" to their countries of origin, voluntary or otherwise? Their members have been making statements like, the Nazis weren't all that bad, a number of them were found to be parroting Nazi talking points, or quoting verbatim.
  - josteink 2y ago
    Germany is facing enormous stability problems unless it does something radical, not to mention total cultural erasure. Remigration sounds good even reasonable, within reason. I hope we can agree this is clearly not about genocide? In this regard the Nazi-comparison seems weird. «Their members» is too vague for me to opine on.
    - hedora 2y ago
      They support ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. The original goal of the Nazi concentration camps was relocating ethnic groups to help stabilize Germany and protect its culture. Your viewpoints are indistinguishable from those of a pro-Hitler German in the lead up to world war two.
    - rich_sasha 2y ago
      Hitler didn't start with genocidal ideas either, it was "remigration" under a different name too. DW has a nice little selection of quotes from senior AdD politicians. Some are simply about hostility to the EU but many are about violence against migrants: https://www.dw.com/en/afd-leaders-and-their-most-offensive-remarks/g-37651099 https://www.dw.com/en/afd-leaders-and-their-most-offensive-r... one select about shooting or gassing, whichever is more convenient, from their now former press officer. Another highlights that AfD uses some Nazi newspeak, on racial dilution.

nickthegreek 2y ago

I find the concept that the left is pulling this nazi stuff of their ass to a bad problem with anyone out there defending it. If someone accused me of giving a nazi salute, and then the nazis high five each other in the internet, I’d be releasing a statements that this was a complete misunderstanding. Nazi’s are losers and can fuck off. Then there wouldn’t even be room for this. But the man keeps finding himself questionable close to nazi adjacent shit far too often. It might be for lulz, but don’t be surprised when consumers back off your products.

alabastervlog 2y ago

Dude it’s on video. We can just watch it. This wasn’t an innocent gesture caught in an awkward still, it’s on video. I get that it’s also on video that he looked high as a kite at the event, but most people manage not to nazi salute when high, too.

fsagx 2y ago
Elon seems really unhinged, and there's so much to criticize without reaching for inflammatory labels. I don't understand the gesture. It's not something I see myself ever doing. But here's Tim Walz doing the exact same thing on video. Evidence of secret NSDAP membership? https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qdntrfPInBk https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qdntrfPInBk
- alabastervlog 2y ago
  That’s pretty weird but that’s also not what Elon did. I just re-watched his in case my memory was faulty, and no, it’s simply a Nazi salute, straight-up.
- yongjik 2y ago
  If this looks like the "exact same thing" Elon Musk did, have your eyes checked. Seriously. I literally clicked the link, spent 5 seconds, and it's a totally different gesture...?

smallerize 2y ago

Far left? https://www.wired.com/story/neo-nazis-love-elon-musk-nazi-like-salutes-trumps-inauguration/ https://www.wired.com/story/neo-nazis-love-elon-musk-nazi-li...

ryandrake 2y ago

Wow, I didn't have this on my bingo card for today, but this has got to be the most full-throated, impassioned defense and downplaying of an obvious Nazi salute I've ever read in my life. I tell ya what. Instead of trying to convince you of what you're wishing to be not true, try this: Pull up the video of the gesture he made, practice it at home, make sure you can duplicate it perfectly, and then go into work and do it in front of each person you meet, and come back here and tell us what happens.

scns 2y ago

His grandfather emigrated from Canada to South Africa after the fascist party he was a member of got banned.

defrost 2y ago
That's just one grandfather though. Albeit a full on out and out Hitler supporting grandfather. His other grandfather was a well respected senior government minister. ( Who defended aparthied tooth and nail in the white South African Government )
- scns 2y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHSgVk84B0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHSgVk84B0 A little historical background.
  - defrost 2y ago
    I'm a bit older than that crowd, I remember first hand where they came from and read the long form Guardian article when it was written. Still, if you like youtube material, the lyrics to songs they all grew up with in SA are telling enough: e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIGnIvL18_4&t=31s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIGnIvL18_4&t=31s As the twigs were bent ...

tim333 2y ago

Compare Musk doing my heart goes out gesture https://x.com/kingore91/status/1884580205185954045 https://x.com/kingore91/status/1884580205185954045 to Musk doing the nazi like gesture https://x.com/iam_smx/status/1881583500991889729 https://x.com/iam_smx/status/1881583500991889729 I think there's an obvious difference.