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Yeah, the prospect of layoffs hits a little different when you're in your 50s. I have some non-techie friends in their 50s (sales, project management) who have

Yeah, the prospect of layoffs hits a little different when you're in your 50s. I have some non-techie friends in their 50s (sales, project management) who have been looking for a job for years. I've even heard third-hand about some good programmers in their 50s in LA in the same boat, although I don't know them personally. The last time I was looking for a job at age 48, I interviewed at a bunch of startups and only got a second interview from one. It was clear that most of them were never going with someone my age unless I'd written a book or had patents or something (or was ex-FAANG), even if they didn't consciously realize that.

giantg2 2y ago
Yep. The subliminal message I'm getting from my current managers is that I should just be a good little disabled person and work as a Walmart greeter. It's turning into harassment at this point. Just all sorts of BS. Like telling me they are doing so much for me, when my ADA accommodation is weekly 1-on-1s with the manager and my tech lead. Is that really a lot? There are people without disabilities getting weekly 1-on-1s with their managers. Maybe the weekly tech lead meeting is more than others get, but it doesn't seem that hard. I got told my productivity looked bad. I asked if he ran the numbers - he didn't. He didn't even look at my productivity before telling me it looked bad. I ran the numbers and I was in line with my peers. I would think that's the definition of bias... nobody gives a fuck. I didn't get my accommodation for 6 months last year and then they gave me a bad rating based on opinon and not metrics. They said me not getting the accommodations wasn't a factor in my performance (how?).
- int_19h 2y ago
  A weekly or bi-weekly 1:1 with your manager has been the standard arrangement in my last two jobs.
  - giantg2 2y ago
    It's supposed to be bi-weekly here. But according to HR "that's not policy, just recommended". I had about 5-6 months were I only got 2 1-on-1s, and the feedback then was good. They completely dropped the ball and blamed it on the disabled guy.
  - jorts 2y ago
    Yea I do weekly 1:1s with all my directs and have done so for the past ~13 years. Pretty standard.
    - away271828 2y ago
      Mostly I had team calls. Theoretically had 1:1s with one former manager but with both of our travel schedules it ended up monthly at best.
  - suzzer99 2y ago
    Mine is bi-weekly but my boss cancels it every time.
  - rincebrain 2y ago
    I suspect that the difference is a lot of managers end up so overcommitted that they can't handle 1:1s with all their direct reports. Of course, that's its own problem, but particularly in places where it's hard to get headcount, the management structures get wider and wider...
- snapcaster 2y ago
  At my current job, in the manager training we were told "you should have weekly 1:1 with your direct reports" and i thought "who the fuck needs to be told that?". This is an illuminating comment, seems absurd to me
  - giantg2 2y ago
    I had only 2-3 1-on-1s over the course of about 5 months last year. But nobody will hold the manager accountable.
- nickd2001 2y ago
  Such a subliminal message might be "constructive dismissal" and against disability legislation. With a good lawyer you might get a decent result if they ever did fire you? On the plus side, the fact they haven't fired you means either (a) they do actually value you performance even if they're claiming otherwise (perhaps to avoid paying more) or (b) they'd quite like to fire you but fear being sued big time if they did, so holding back. Either way, it'd seem you've got some power over them if you play your cards right. So, maybe try not to stress? ;) Yeah OK that's easier said than done....
  - giantg2 2y ago
    Off and on they've been threatening me with a PIP for the past year, but haven't actually triggered one. I did talk to a lawyer. They said there's not much I can do until they terminate me, or risk losing the job. They could help me respond to a PIP when they PIP me. But even if the company terminates me, the lawyer said they are inclined to negotiate higher severance than going to court because it's tricky to prove that any bias or singled out treatment was because of the disability and not something else. Although I do have notes of my manager saying requesting accommodations might have hurt me and that my department head is targeting me for some reason.
    - nickd2001 2y ago
      Ah well I wish you all the best with it. Sounds like a form of bullying to me :( Might not hurt to set your phone to record mode during some of those meetings. ;) I know what you're saying about making a legal case. Legal stuff is always a pain, not somewhere you wanna go if you can help it. Its bluffing right? They need to think you might consider sue-ing and could win, even if you know you wouldn't. Personally, if I was in your position, I'd be looking at what skills were in demand locally, and ruthlessly up-skilling in that stuff, during work time, ideally by working on stuff they need anyway. But, again, easier said than done...
milesrout 2y ago
If you are in your 50s then your recent years of peak lifetime earning potential overlapped with an industry massively overpaying its workforce. You shouldn't need a job. You should have FIREd.
- suzzer99 2y ago
  Having FIRE doesn't mean you're ready to retire and build ships in a bottle or whatever. I like programming, it puts me in flow state and keeps my brain young. I want to go out on my own terms. Also good luck with FIRE if you're putting kids through college. And thirdly, for those of us at normal companies the pay has been nice, but not FAANG mid-six-figures nice.
  - milesrout 2y ago
    You don't have to "put kids through college". If you're in the US, they can borrow to go somewhere decent and affordable. Harvard has never been for you, it has always been for the children of very rich New Englanders.
    - NBJack 2y ago
      You should probably update your personal data on what kind of debt they would be taking on, and how long it takes to pay it off. https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics https://research.com/education/average-time-to-repay-student-loans https://research.com/education/average-time-to-repay-student... https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college Even at a relatively average college, debt repayment is often measured in decades.
- musicale 2y ago
  > massively overpaying its workforce As I understand it, tech employees are typically paid a small fraction of the revenue that they bring into the company. Outside of tech, employees are underpaid, and wages haven't tracked productivity growth since the 1970s. Profit growth has greatly exceeded wage growth since the early 2000s, with the exception of the 2008 recession.
away271828 2y ago
I reached a point--somewhat older than that--when I didn't have a real job any longer, but nobody seemed in a big hurry to get rid of me, and they were paying me pretty well. I made it through a small layoff though I wouldn't have minded the good severance. I might have hung around in different circumstances but figured I should optimize the payout up to a point and wasn't really interested in heading somewhere new.

giantg2 2y ago

Yep. The subliminal message I'm getting from my current managers is that I should just be a good little disabled person and work as a Walmart greeter. It's turning into harassment at this point. Just all sorts of BS. Like telling me they are doing so much for me, when my ADA accommodation is weekly 1-on-1s with the manager and my tech lead. Is that really a lot? There are people without disabilities getting weekly 1-on-1s with their managers. Maybe the weekly tech lead meeting is more than others get, but it doesn't seem that hard. I got told my productivity looked bad. I asked if he ran the numbers - he didn't. He didn't even look at my productivity before telling me it looked bad. I ran the numbers and I was in line with my peers. I would think that's the definition of bias... nobody gives a fuck. I didn't get my accommodation for 6 months last year and then they gave me a bad rating based on opinon and not metrics. They said me not getting the accommodations wasn't a factor in my performance (how?).

int_19h 2y ago
A weekly or bi-weekly 1:1 with your manager has been the standard arrangement in my last two jobs.
- giantg2 2y ago
  It's supposed to be bi-weekly here. But according to HR "that's not policy, just recommended". I had about 5-6 months were I only got 2 1-on-1s, and the feedback then was good. They completely dropped the ball and blamed it on the disabled guy.
- jorts 2y ago
  Yea I do weekly 1:1s with all my directs and have done so for the past ~13 years. Pretty standard.
  - away271828 2y ago
    Mostly I had team calls. Theoretically had 1:1s with one former manager but with both of our travel schedules it ended up monthly at best.
- suzzer99 2y ago
  Mine is bi-weekly but my boss cancels it every time.
- rincebrain 2y ago
  I suspect that the difference is a lot of managers end up so overcommitted that they can't handle 1:1s with all their direct reports. Of course, that's its own problem, but particularly in places where it's hard to get headcount, the management structures get wider and wider...
snapcaster 2y ago
At my current job, in the manager training we were told "you should have weekly 1:1 with your direct reports" and i thought "who the fuck needs to be told that?". This is an illuminating comment, seems absurd to me
- giantg2 2y ago
  I had only 2-3 1-on-1s over the course of about 5 months last year. But nobody will hold the manager accountable.
nickd2001 2y ago
Such a subliminal message might be "constructive dismissal" and against disability legislation. With a good lawyer you might get a decent result if they ever did fire you? On the plus side, the fact they haven't fired you means either (a) they do actually value you performance even if they're claiming otherwise (perhaps to avoid paying more) or (b) they'd quite like to fire you but fear being sued big time if they did, so holding back. Either way, it'd seem you've got some power over them if you play your cards right. So, maybe try not to stress? ;) Yeah OK that's easier said than done....
- giantg2 2y ago
  Off and on they've been threatening me with a PIP for the past year, but haven't actually triggered one. I did talk to a lawyer. They said there's not much I can do until they terminate me, or risk losing the job. They could help me respond to a PIP when they PIP me. But even if the company terminates me, the lawyer said they are inclined to negotiate higher severance than going to court because it's tricky to prove that any bias or singled out treatment was because of the disability and not something else. Although I do have notes of my manager saying requesting accommodations might have hurt me and that my department head is targeting me for some reason.
  - nickd2001 2y ago
    Ah well I wish you all the best with it. Sounds like a form of bullying to me :( Might not hurt to set your phone to record mode during some of those meetings. ;) I know what you're saying about making a legal case. Legal stuff is always a pain, not somewhere you wanna go if you can help it. Its bluffing right? They need to think you might consider sue-ing and could win, even if you know you wouldn't. Personally, if I was in your position, I'd be looking at what skills were in demand locally, and ruthlessly up-skilling in that stuff, during work time, ideally by working on stuff they need anyway. But, again, easier said than done...

milesrout 2y ago

If you are in your 50s then your recent years of peak lifetime earning potential overlapped with an industry massively overpaying its workforce. You shouldn't need a job. You should have FIREd.

suzzer99 2y ago
Having FIRE doesn't mean you're ready to retire and build ships in a bottle or whatever. I like programming, it puts me in flow state and keeps my brain young. I want to go out on my own terms. Also good luck with FIRE if you're putting kids through college. And thirdly, for those of us at normal companies the pay has been nice, but not FAANG mid-six-figures nice.
- milesrout 2y ago
  You don't have to "put kids through college". If you're in the US, they can borrow to go somewhere decent and affordable. Harvard has never been for you, it has always been for the children of very rich New Englanders.
  - NBJack 2y ago
    You should probably update your personal data on what kind of debt they would be taking on, and how long it takes to pay it off. https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics https://research.com/education/average-time-to-repay-student-loans https://research.com/education/average-time-to-repay-student... https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college Even at a relatively average college, debt repayment is often measured in decades.
musicale 2y ago
> massively overpaying its workforce As I understand it, tech employees are typically paid a small fraction of the revenue that they bring into the company. Outside of tech, employees are underpaid, and wages haven't tracked productivity growth since the 1970s. Profit growth has greatly exceeded wage growth since the early 2000s, with the exception of the 2008 recession.

away271828 2y ago

I reached a point--somewhat older than that--when I didn't have a real job any longer, but nobody seemed in a big hurry to get rid of me, and they were paying me pretty well. I made it through a small layoff though I wouldn't have minded the good severance. I might have hung around in different circumstances but figured I should optimize the payout up to a point and wasn't really interested in heading somewhere new.