4 ms·

The amount of money DOGE and Trump is saving americans by firing government employees, shutting down departments, withdrawing from military operations... I'd e

The amount of money DOGE and Trump is saving americans by firing government employees, shutting down departments, withdrawing from military operations... I'd expect everyone in US to only have a few percent of income tax next year. (Hint of sarcasm, yes, but an honest question; where is the money going?)

lowercased 2y ago
It will be used to make tax cuts available.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  Only for the very top brackets.
rbanffy 2y ago
Tax breaks for the super rich. What did you expect?
- thordenmark 2y ago
  What other kind of tax breaks are there? Any tax cut for the middle class will be exploited by the super rich who have tax lawyers and accountants. So just keep raising taxes so the middle class pays even more?
  - polski-g 2y ago
    The rich pay all the taxes, so those are the only people whose taxes you could cut. The top 25% pays 90% of all tax revenue: https://usafacts.org/articles/who-pays-the-most-income-tax/ https://usafacts.org/articles/who-pays-the-most-income-tax/
    - ydlr 2y ago
      Which is another reason it makes no sense to maintain/raise tax rates on the middle class while cutting taxes on the rich. This is burdensome for those paying while it adds very little to public coffers.
      - polski-g 2y ago
        It makes sense if you want to make the tax burden more equal, like it is in Europe.
delusional 2y ago
They're not saving any money.
- alabastervlog 2y ago
  This is it. 1) They can’t save the money. Congress has to do that. I mean they can illegally not-spend what Congress allocated, but not legally. Congress decides how much is spent, and on what. And besides, 2) Their actions so far have guaranteed so much wasted prior spending (actions partway done that got cut off, wasting the prior spending) and certain losses in court that’ll cost money (blatantly illegal firings, rather than following the correct methods) that they’ve dug themselves a hole anyway. Even for generous and wrong (see point 1) versions of “how much they’ve saved” (but not counting lies like claiming already-spent money as savings) they’re way in the red.
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    The idea has always been demolishing the state, not saving money. I hope that, at least, all the data and systems that were deleted were not irrecoverably destroyed. It'll take a lot to rebuild when this government ends.
    - delusional 2y ago
      The IT systems are the least of the problems. Who in their right mind would aspire or begin a career in government/public work with this being a possibility. This is a generational scar that you will fundamentally alter the way civil servants interact with their organizations.
      - rbanffy 2y ago
        All civil servants I know do it for the same reason military enlist (in other countries - the US has different incentives): out of a wish to serve their country.
        2y ago
Taikonerd 2y ago
> where is the money going? The Republicans hope to pass tax cuts: https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-tax-bill-cuts-senate-roadblocks-c6a150fd https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-tax-bill-cuts-sena... "[The most recent] plan calls for $4.5 trillion in tax cuts over a decade and at least $1.5 trillion in spending cuts." In other words, the tax cuts will actually cost MORE than is being saved by these spending cuts. We're going to go into debt even faster.
- thordenmark 2y ago
  It is Republican dogma that tax cuts stimulate the economy and ultimately have a larger return for the government than raising taxes will.
  - alabastervlog 2y ago
    Despite no evidence that this actually works. Plus the vast majority of experts on the topic saying it doesn’t work, but also, we’ve tried it and it doesn’t work.
    - rbanffy 2y ago
      Many countries have tried, some multiple times, and it NEVER worked. It made rich people richer. That’s why they try again.
  - Incipient 2y ago
    I think that's called "trickle down economics"? Which I don't think anyone believes any more is actually a viable thing. People have realised "money makes money". You give the rich more money/less tax, they just get richer at the expense of the less rich.
- anjel 2y ago
  "We aim to shrink the federal government until its small enough to be dragged into the bathroom and drowned in the tub." -Grover Nordquist: Starving The Beast
trelane 2y ago
As always, almost all federal spending is entitlements, interest, and the military. https://www.pgpf.org/article/chart-pack-the-us-budget/ https://www.pgpf.org/article/chart-pack-the-us-budget/ https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/ https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/feder...
- Jupe 2y ago
  Why is Social Security always represented as an expense along with things like defense and administration? It is sourced from separate taxes and has no business in the US govt. budget.
  - alabastervlog 2y ago
    It’s typically motivated by some desire to slant the figures, or else just not realizing how the funding is structured. Serious discussion of the budget doesn’t include Social Security.
- Salgat 2y ago
  Yeah people don't realize how tiny federal employees are as a part of our budget. Even firing half of all federal employees only amounts to a paltry 2% savings on our budget. The gop's increased military spending in the latest proposed budget dwarfs those savings.
placatedmayhem 2y ago
From what I gather, anything they've saved is going to tax cuts for wealthier Americans and increased military spending. The 90% of folks at the lower end are getting tax increases, too, as of the latest plan I've seen. How much DOGE is saving is very questionable, too. Less than 1% of the annual budget fwiu. And whether those savings are actually permanent, or whether they cost us when consequences of cuts come calling after some time.
- anjel 2y ago
  For reference, 90% is if you make under $250k a year
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  DOGE savings is only a tiny percent of the tax cuts cost. The truth is the tax cuts are going to be paid for with debt.
  - lowercased 2y ago
    Otherwise, why vote to raise the debt ceiling, right?
bryanlarsen 2y ago
The cuts to the IRS will lose the US more money than DOGE is saving elsewhere.
- threeseed 2y ago
  Apparently every employee the IRS was hiring was brining in far more than their wage.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    The agents the IRS was hiring were going to raid cash only businesses. The democrats vetoed Mike Crapos ammendment to only use additional IRS funding to audit incomes >250k$.
mullingitover 2y ago
The money being 'saved' is a drop in the bucket in the federal budget. This is performative, a dog and pony show, and will be used to justify unfunded tax cuts that will drive up the deficit. It's the same Santa Claus policies we always see when these people are in power: all the promised fiscal discipline goes out the window and a giveaway to their donors ensues. The only way to really drive down federal spending is to attack the source of the problem: the regulatory capture of government by the health care system. Medicare is the elephant in the room, and due to the regulatory capture the lobotomized government won't use its negotiating power to keep the costs in check. It's a massive wealth transfer from taxpayers to the health care system.

lowercased 2y ago

It will be used to make tax cuts available.

rbanffy 2y ago
Only for the very top brackets.

rbanffy 2y ago

Tax breaks for the super rich. What did you expect?

thordenmark 2y ago
What other kind of tax breaks are there? Any tax cut for the middle class will be exploited by the super rich who have tax lawyers and accountants. So just keep raising taxes so the middle class pays even more?
- polski-g 2y ago
  The rich pay all the taxes, so those are the only people whose taxes you could cut. The top 25% pays 90% of all tax revenue: https://usafacts.org/articles/who-pays-the-most-income-tax/ https://usafacts.org/articles/who-pays-the-most-income-tax/
  - ydlr 2y ago
    Which is another reason it makes no sense to maintain/raise tax rates on the middle class while cutting taxes on the rich. This is burdensome for those paying while it adds very little to public coffers.
    - polski-g 2y ago
      It makes sense if you want to make the tax burden more equal, like it is in Europe.

delusional 2y ago

They're not saving any money.

alabastervlog 2y ago
This is it. 1) They can’t save the money. Congress has to do that. I mean they can illegally not-spend what Congress allocated, but not legally. Congress decides how much is spent, and on what. And besides, 2) Their actions so far have guaranteed so much wasted prior spending (actions partway done that got cut off, wasting the prior spending) and certain losses in court that’ll cost money (blatantly illegal firings, rather than following the correct methods) that they’ve dug themselves a hole anyway. Even for generous and wrong (see point 1) versions of “how much they’ve saved” (but not counting lies like claiming already-spent money as savings) they’re way in the red.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  The idea has always been demolishing the state, not saving money. I hope that, at least, all the data and systems that were deleted were not irrecoverably destroyed. It'll take a lot to rebuild when this government ends.
  - delusional 2y ago
    The IT systems are the least of the problems. Who in their right mind would aspire or begin a career in government/public work with this being a possibility. This is a generational scar that you will fundamentally alter the way civil servants interact with their organizations.
    - rbanffy 2y ago
      All civil servants I know do it for the same reason military enlist (in other countries - the US has different incentives): out of a wish to serve their country.
      - 2y ago

Taikonerd 2y ago

> where is the money going? The Republicans hope to pass tax cuts: https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-tax-bill-cuts-senate-roadblocks-c6a150fd https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-tax-bill-cuts-sena... "[The most recent] plan calls for $4.5 trillion in tax cuts over a decade and at least $1.5 trillion in spending cuts." In other words, the tax cuts will actually cost MORE than is being saved by these spending cuts. We're going to go into debt even faster.

thordenmark 2y ago
It is Republican dogma that tax cuts stimulate the economy and ultimately have a larger return for the government than raising taxes will.
- alabastervlog 2y ago
  Despite no evidence that this actually works. Plus the vast majority of experts on the topic saying it doesn’t work, but also, we’ve tried it and it doesn’t work.
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    Many countries have tried, some multiple times, and it NEVER worked. It made rich people richer. That’s why they try again.
- Incipient 2y ago
  I think that's called "trickle down economics"? Which I don't think anyone believes any more is actually a viable thing. People have realised "money makes money". You give the rich more money/less tax, they just get richer at the expense of the less rich.
anjel 2y ago
"We aim to shrink the federal government until its small enough to be dragged into the bathroom and drowned in the tub." -Grover Nordquist: Starving The Beast

trelane 2y ago

As always, almost all federal spending is entitlements, interest, and the military. https://www.pgpf.org/article/chart-pack-the-us-budget/ https://www.pgpf.org/article/chart-pack-the-us-budget/ https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/ https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/feder...

Jupe 2y ago
Why is Social Security always represented as an expense along with things like defense and administration? It is sourced from separate taxes and has no business in the US govt. budget.
- alabastervlog 2y ago
  It’s typically motivated by some desire to slant the figures, or else just not realizing how the funding is structured. Serious discussion of the budget doesn’t include Social Security.
Salgat 2y ago
Yeah people don't realize how tiny federal employees are as a part of our budget. Even firing half of all federal employees only amounts to a paltry 2% savings on our budget. The gop's increased military spending in the latest proposed budget dwarfs those savings.

placatedmayhem 2y ago

From what I gather, anything they've saved is going to tax cuts for wealthier Americans and increased military spending. The 90% of folks at the lower end are getting tax increases, too, as of the latest plan I've seen. How much DOGE is saving is very questionable, too. Less than 1% of the annual budget fwiu. And whether those savings are actually permanent, or whether they cost us when consequences of cuts come calling after some time.

anjel 2y ago
For reference, 90% is if you make under $250k a year
throwaway48476 2y ago
DOGE savings is only a tiny percent of the tax cuts cost. The truth is the tax cuts are going to be paid for with debt.
- lowercased 2y ago
  Otherwise, why vote to raise the debt ceiling, right?

bryanlarsen 2y ago

The cuts to the IRS will lose the US more money than DOGE is saving elsewhere.

threeseed 2y ago
Apparently every employee the IRS was hiring was brining in far more than their wage.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  The agents the IRS was hiring were going to raid cash only businesses. The democrats vetoed Mike Crapos ammendment to only use additional IRS funding to audit incomes >250k$.

mullingitover 2y ago

The money being 'saved' is a drop in the bucket in the federal budget. This is performative, a dog and pony show, and will be used to justify unfunded tax cuts that will drive up the deficit. It's the same Santa Claus policies we always see when these people are in power: all the promised fiscal discipline goes out the window and a giveaway to their donors ensues. The only way to really drive down federal spending is to attack the source of the problem: the regulatory capture of government by the health care system. Medicare is the elephant in the room, and due to the regulatory capture the lobotomized government won't use its negotiating power to keep the costs in check. It's a massive wealth transfer from taxpayers to the health care system.