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How is this different than the manager who has spent years developing an employee - making sure they are getting the experiences they need to build a better car
by andrewlgood 2y ago
How is this different than the manager who has spent years developing an employee - making sure they are getting the experiences they need to build a better career, hiring the right people to complement the team, fighting for bonuses and pay raises - only to have them quit to join the next company for a 10% raise. It is difficult to build a long-term culture when society seems to expect job hopping to rapidly advance a career.
On a related note, it is odd that HN comments rarely seem to include a manager’s perspective.
- nine_k 2y agoI've never seen people leaving great jobs for a 10% raise. It's always something else: a much bigger benefit, or a significant downside of the current job, which are not widely publicized. Instead, I've seen people going to a lower-paying position for a more interesting job, a chance to learn new hot thing hands-on, a different set of responsibilities, etc.
- al_borland 2y agoI worked with a guy who left for more money, found out the grass wasn’t greener, and came crawling back. Then did it again. For some reason they hired him back a second time. When he quit the 3rd time I think that was the final bridge burned. I asked him about it and he said money was his singular metric for choosing a job, he was always looking, and would never stop.
- nine_k 2y agoI once left for a 50% raise, and once for a large chunk of equity in a promising startup (and being able to do early-stage formative work). But 10%?..
- entropicdrifter 2y agoYeah, I left a job where I loved the team and didn't mind the leadership too much for a 45% raise. Got lucky and the job I landed in was an even better fit for me.
- jamesfinlayson 2y agoI remember a guy at a previous job doing something similar - left for a React job (despite being a PHP developer), then came back like 6 months later because he couldn't get his head around React, then left again like 6 months later. Pretty sure it was about money because the PHP job was pretty relaxed and had some good perks.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoClearly money wasn't the only factor if he crawled back. Was he terminated or something?
- jamesfinlayson 2y agoYeah I was offered a job with 12% better pay recently - from a friend too so I knew the job couldn't be too bad. But I feel like I'm onto a good thing where I am and the perks are okay (plus I'd probably be burning some bridges just by leaving).
- bbqfog 2y agoAn experienced manager would know that is how the game is played and act accordingly. Don't get emotionally attached to any work relationships. It's transactional, keep that in mind.
- andrewlgood 2y agoAgreed. Shouldn’t employees behave/feel the same way?
- bbqfog 2y agoAbsolutely.
- al_borland 2y agoThis mentality is why people don’t get promoted internally, which leads to the job hoping in the first place. Fix this and a lot of the job hoping problem goes away.
- bbqfog 2y agoJob hopping is not a problem, it's how you get ahead quickly.
- al_borland 2y agoYou just described the symptom of a problem.
- bbqfog 2y agoWell yeah, the problem is capitalism. The least you can do is try to tilt the scale in your favor as much as possible. That’s absolutely what capital is doing all the time.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoMonetarily, sure. But that's because companies are so hesitant to give raises but love to hire new people.
- mym1990 2y agoOh totally! I don't have that perspective from the manager as I am very much an IC, and I have 0 experience job hopping as well as I have basically been with the same company for most of my career. I would say, naively, that part of that difference comes down to job description. If its in a manager's job description to: "make sure they are getting the experiences they need to build a better career, hire the right people to complement the team, fight for bonuses and pay raises", then they should be doing those things. If not, they are going above and beyond and I would certainly consider them a great manager...but the truth is that there are not that many managers out there doing this.
- andrewlgood 2y agoInterestingly, I have never had a job description that actually said "make sure they are getting the experiences they need to build a better career, hire the right people to complement the team, fight for bonuses and pay raises." Rather they say something like 'effectively lead team to do...." To effectively lead the team, IMHO, one needs to "make sure they are getting the experiences they need to build a better career, hire the right people to complement the team, fight for bonuses and pay raises." I think this is true for all managers/leaders.
- mym1990 2y agoIt may be true for all good managers and leaders but alas that is not the world we live in. Effectively leading a team to some people means walking behind them with a switch and cracking them every time they make a mistake. Managers
- johnnyanmac 2y agoA company can definitely afford a 10% raise, and they instead choose a 20% raise from someone they headhunt. An employee doesn't have much control of suddenly being locked out of their workspace. >it is odd that HN comments rarely seem to include a manager’s perspective. Managers can be screwed by the company too, yes. I understand such decisions aren't always their call.