4 ms·

Ukraine wasn’t a buyer. They were given those F16s. Be careful when something is given for “free”.

adamors 2y ago
The Netherlands for instance, who gave Ukraine a batch of F16s _was_ a buyer. Logic still stands, US made anything is worthless if it includes a kill switch that can be toggled any time post-purchase.
- pokstad 2y ago
  Good point, but I wonder if there was something in the agreement between the US and the Netherlands when those were originally sold.
  - delfinom 2y ago
    They all create export agreements where countries have to seek permission to reexport and more. Usually for political plays. It's also the same reason the Swiss defense industry is now in collapse. Because they refused to allow re-export of ammo to Ukraine citing Swiss neutrality. It immediately made all Swiss made ammo worthless for all european countries in event of war. Lol Apparently the Swiss are still talking of revising their law while their defense industry is crying because nobody wants to buy their shit as European countries want to be able to help other European countries. Especially circles like the Nordic or Baltic regions where the countries are extremely buddy buddy.
    - magicalhippo 2y ago
      Some sources on this: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/foreign-affairs/is-the-swiss-weapons-industry-in-danger-of-misfiring/73451471 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/foreign-affairs/is-the-swiss-we... https://breakingdefense.com/2023/03/the-cost-of-neutrality-swiss-defense-industry-just-losing-our-market-amid-ukraine-conflict/ https://breakingdefense.com/2023/03/the-cost-of-neutrality-s...
    - epoxy_sauce 2y ago
      How does that even work? Like you can't use Swiss ammo against European nations or what? It just seems to make it literally(not figuratively) worthless.
tokai 2y ago
Wasn't US' F16s.
alpaca128 2y ago
Sounds like the statement that if an online service is free, you are the product, when in reality the same applies to paying customers as well. You are only exempt if you have full control over it. It doesn’t matter who owns these planes, the US have shown that they have the power to make them useless and that they cannot be trusted, and that is a dealbreaker when it comes to expensive & important equipment.

The Netherlands for instance, who gave Ukraine a batch of F16s _was_ a buyer. Logic still stands, US made anything is worthless if it includes a kill switch that can be toggled any time post-purchase.

pokstad 2y ago
Good point, but I wonder if there was something in the agreement between the US and the Netherlands when those were originally sold.
- delfinom 2y ago
  They all create export agreements where countries have to seek permission to reexport and more. Usually for political plays. It's also the same reason the Swiss defense industry is now in collapse. Because they refused to allow re-export of ammo to Ukraine citing Swiss neutrality. It immediately made all Swiss made ammo worthless for all european countries in event of war. Lol Apparently the Swiss are still talking of revising their law while their defense industry is crying because nobody wants to buy their shit as European countries want to be able to help other European countries. Especially circles like the Nordic or Baltic regions where the countries are extremely buddy buddy.
  - magicalhippo 2y ago
    Some sources on this: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/foreign-affairs/is-the-swiss-weapons-industry-in-danger-of-misfiring/73451471 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/foreign-affairs/is-the-swiss-we... https://breakingdefense.com/2023/03/the-cost-of-neutrality-swiss-defense-industry-just-losing-our-market-amid-ukraine-conflict/ https://breakingdefense.com/2023/03/the-cost-of-neutrality-s...
  - epoxy_sauce 2y ago
    How does that even work? Like you can't use Swiss ammo against European nations or what? It just seems to make it literally(not figuratively) worthless.

tokai 2y ago

Wasn't US' F16s.

alpaca128 2y ago

Sounds like the statement that if an online service is free, you are the product, when in reality the same applies to paying customers as well. You are only exempt if you have full control over it. It doesn’t matter who owns these planes, the US have shown that they have the power to make them useless and that they cannot be trusted, and that is a dealbreaker when it comes to expensive & important equipment.