6 ms·

Those who've had experience with either transmitting or receiving on the HF band and or lower frequencies (≤30MHz) and who've knowledge of ionospheric propagati

Those who've had experience with either transmitting or receiving on the HF band and or lower frequencies (≤30MHz) and who've knowledge of ionospheric propagation just know that short, medium and longwave RF bands are still essential in this digital/cable/satellite era for reasons that when all other communications systems have failed then communications on these frequencies will still be reliable. Moreover, in wartime or during some other major catastrophe when technical infrastructure is likely to be impacted or destroyed then establishing and maintaining communications services on these frequencies is easy for reasons that the technology is low-tech and easy to understand—and there's an enormous amount of engineering experience to fall back upon (about 100 years' worth). That we even have to raise this discussion is a quintessential example of intergenerational information loss. Given their strategic importance, governments should put priority on educating the smartphone/streaming generation that these other modes of electronic communication actually exist and that they may even have to depend upon them. I only need to refer to the current debate over retaining AM-band reception in car radios to illustrate the paucity of understanding. That EV manufacturers are pushing for the removal of the AM band in their car radios is proof-positive of how little the current breed of electronics engineers knows about these frequencies let alone their strategic importance.

baskinator 2y ago
A ham technician license is pretty easy to obtain in the US, and a handheld radio can be had for cheap. HF takes a little more hardware though.
- MandieD 2y ago
  Bonus: all of the US license exams can be taken online, proctored by three volunteers watching you on your laptop and second mobile device camera.
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  And I believe you don't even need a technician license for just listening in.
  - DrillShopper 2y ago
    You do not! You can get started for as little as $17: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074XPB313 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074XPB313 For the other amateur radio operators on the site, the UV-5Rs from the main Amazon seller all comply with spurious emissions regs - the ones from AliExpress are hit or miss. Plus searching YouTube with 'Baofeng UV5R' will turn up a ton of material including explaining why people should care about the spurious emissions.
    - lormayna 2y ago
      Just a note: this device is not able to listen shortwaves as it's capable to listen only VHF/UHF. If you want to listen shortwaves for cheap, you need something like an ATS-25 or this: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005008266218975.html https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005008266218975.html
  - chasd00 2y ago
    I have a yaesu ft65 and every now and then turn it on. I listen to an automated voice dispatching fire trucks in Dallas TX. They’re pretty busy as something comes across about once a minute. Heh I turned it on while typing this and “emergency child birth” just came across. Man, glad I’m not dealing with that at 7:30AM Monday morning.
digitalsankhara 2y ago
You covered all the points I was going to make. As part of the pre-internet generation that grew up with radio and a ham radio operator since my school years this is second nature and common sense to me. It is interesting that governments have long recognised the power of shortwave such that they have restricted what a citizen can do with it. In wartime, ham radio is usually made illegal. The recipient of a broadcast cannot be detected (save some very local factors - meters range) which is why governments around the world still use shortwave number stations to transmit coded instructions to spies. I suspect the removal of AM radio in EVs is also because the cost to RF shield the car against EM emissions in that frequency range was deemed too high for the audience it would address, and maybe just lazy or engineering too. Agree, very short sighted. Hell, even the BBC in the UK is closing down local AM transmitters on cost grounds (but I suspect there is political pressure to move the masses to digital UHF infrastructure). A medium wave/shortwave transmitter is the ultimate in post apocalyptic film memes!
- dalke 2y ago
  > such that they have restricted what a citizen can do with it My grandfather, born in Canada and later naturalized as a US citizen, got his ham ticket back in the 1960s, but, as he wrote: "This was O.K. for one year but to renew & become general I would have to obtain more than just a US passport; It would be necessary to get a certificate of citizenship. This took years and during those years I landed up in the Dom. Republic & got my Ham ticket there without it, HI3XRD." He later moved to Miami. When Hurricane David came through the D.R. in 1979, he was one of the ham volunteers who helped handle communications from the island. Oh, and he never got Extra because while he could manage 13 wpm for General or Advanced, he couldn't manage the 20 wpm for Extra.
  - hilbert42 2y ago
    "It would be necessary to get a certificate of citizenship. This took years and during those years I landed up in the Dom. Republic & got my Ham ticket there without it, HI3XRD."" Thank you very much for pointing that out. I'm in Australia and I've often pointed to the fact that many countries restricted access to the radio spectrum for many reasons—to limit EMI, for state security and strategic reasons, ensure secrecy of communications, etc. For example, when I got my amateur ticket whilst still at school in the 1960s I had to sign a Declaration of Secrecy and have it witnessed by a registered JP. The reason was that people such as us could come across important transmissions (messages) of a strategic nature that should not be allowed to fall into the wrong hands. Come mobile phones, WiFi etc. that changed without any real public discussion whatsoever. What I find absolutely amazing is how—by sleight-of-hand—Big Tech sideslipped both very tight telephony and radiocommunications laws to violate say privacy on smartphones, and the fact that they've gotten away with it. The smartphone generation hasn't a clue about any of this stuff. Right, once the privacy of telephonic communications was inviolable, now it's a fucking joke. On the matter of the declaration of secrecy, amateurs could possibly come across unencrypted telephonic communications, ship-to-shore etc., and as deemed secret, they (rightly) were not allowed to act on that information in any way, in fact jail-time penalties applied if laws were violated. Incidentally, as my Declaration of Secrecy has never been rescinded I'm still bound by its conditions.
kube-system 2y ago
> ionospheric propagation [...] will still be reliable. ...for varying definitions of 'reliable' :)
- hilbert42 2y ago
  Yep, an issue with 'old fashioned' comms. But modern comms will switch bands or 'glide' frequencies in sympathy with the changing ['fading'] MUF, etc. and can do so automatically (using OWF in conjunction with IPS also helps). Combine that with modern encoding/digital modulation and say DRM of the right kind—Digital Radio Mondiale—for audio etc. and it's pretty damn reliable. Want better? Diversity TX/RX and or multichannel via in-band and or cross-band into comparators etc.

baskinator 2y ago

A ham technician license is pretty easy to obtain in the US, and a handheld radio can be had for cheap. HF takes a little more hardware though.

MandieD 2y ago
Bonus: all of the US license exams can be taken online, proctored by three volunteers watching you on your laptop and second mobile device camera.
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
And I believe you don't even need a technician license for just listening in.
- DrillShopper 2y ago
  You do not! You can get started for as little as $17: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074XPB313 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074XPB313 For the other amateur radio operators on the site, the UV-5Rs from the main Amazon seller all comply with spurious emissions regs - the ones from AliExpress are hit or miss. Plus searching YouTube with 'Baofeng UV5R' will turn up a ton of material including explaining why people should care about the spurious emissions.
  - lormayna 2y ago
    Just a note: this device is not able to listen shortwaves as it's capable to listen only VHF/UHF. If you want to listen shortwaves for cheap, you need something like an ATS-25 or this: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005008266218975.html https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005008266218975.html
- chasd00 2y ago
  I have a yaesu ft65 and every now and then turn it on. I listen to an automated voice dispatching fire trucks in Dallas TX. They’re pretty busy as something comes across about once a minute. Heh I turned it on while typing this and “emergency child birth” just came across. Man, glad I’m not dealing with that at 7:30AM Monday morning.

digitalsankhara 2y ago

You covered all the points I was going to make. As part of the pre-internet generation that grew up with radio and a ham radio operator since my school years this is second nature and common sense to me. It is interesting that governments have long recognised the power of shortwave such that they have restricted what a citizen can do with it. In wartime, ham radio is usually made illegal. The recipient of a broadcast cannot be detected (save some very local factors - meters range) which is why governments around the world still use shortwave number stations to transmit coded instructions to spies. I suspect the removal of AM radio in EVs is also because the cost to RF shield the car against EM emissions in that frequency range was deemed too high for the audience it would address, and maybe just lazy or engineering too. Agree, very short sighted. Hell, even the BBC in the UK is closing down local AM transmitters on cost grounds (but I suspect there is political pressure to move the masses to digital UHF infrastructure). A medium wave/shortwave transmitter is the ultimate in post apocalyptic film memes!

dalke 2y ago
> such that they have restricted what a citizen can do with it My grandfather, born in Canada and later naturalized as a US citizen, got his ham ticket back in the 1960s, but, as he wrote: "This was O.K. for one year but to renew & become general I would have to obtain more than just a US passport; It would be necessary to get a certificate of citizenship. This took years and during those years I landed up in the Dom. Republic & got my Ham ticket there without it, HI3XRD." He later moved to Miami. When Hurricane David came through the D.R. in 1979, he was one of the ham volunteers who helped handle communications from the island. Oh, and he never got Extra because while he could manage 13 wpm for General or Advanced, he couldn't manage the 20 wpm for Extra.
- hilbert42 2y ago
  "It would be necessary to get a certificate of citizenship. This took years and during those years I landed up in the Dom. Republic & got my Ham ticket there without it, HI3XRD."" Thank you very much for pointing that out. I'm in Australia and I've often pointed to the fact that many countries restricted access to the radio spectrum for many reasons—to limit EMI, for state security and strategic reasons, ensure secrecy of communications, etc. For example, when I got my amateur ticket whilst still at school in the 1960s I had to sign a Declaration of Secrecy and have it witnessed by a registered JP. The reason was that people such as us could come across important transmissions (messages) of a strategic nature that should not be allowed to fall into the wrong hands. Come mobile phones, WiFi etc. that changed without any real public discussion whatsoever. What I find absolutely amazing is how—by sleight-of-hand—Big Tech sideslipped both very tight telephony and radiocommunications laws to violate say privacy on smartphones, and the fact that they've gotten away with it. The smartphone generation hasn't a clue about any of this stuff. Right, once the privacy of telephonic communications was inviolable, now it's a fucking joke. On the matter of the declaration of secrecy, amateurs could possibly come across unencrypted telephonic communications, ship-to-shore etc., and as deemed secret, they (rightly) were not allowed to act on that information in any way, in fact jail-time penalties applied if laws were violated. Incidentally, as my Declaration of Secrecy has never been rescinded I'm still bound by its conditions.

kube-system 2y ago

> ionospheric propagation [...] will still be reliable. ...for varying definitions of 'reliable' :)

hilbert42 2y ago
Yep, an issue with 'old fashioned' comms. But modern comms will switch bands or 'glide' frequencies in sympathy with the changing ['fading'] MUF, etc. and can do so automatically (using OWF in conjunction with IPS also helps). Combine that with modern encoding/digital modulation and say DRM of the right kind—Digital Radio Mondiale—for audio etc. and it's pretty damn reliable. Want better? Diversity TX/RX and or multichannel via in-band and or cross-band into comparators etc.