3 ms·

The Russian aviation industry has a terrible track record on delivering new aircraft.

eunos 2y ago
I'm willing to entertain the possibility that the Russian can improve the track record faster than the EU develops 5th gen fighters.
- eitland 2y ago
  So far their 5th generation fighter program has been an even worse embarrassement than the T14 Armata. Their own press photos shows uncovered Philips screws on a supposedly stealth aircraft, and their "loyal wingman" drone used the first opportunity near the frontlines to try to defect.
- SiempreViernes 2y ago
  Sure, but that risk is just something Europe has to eat as punishment for buying F-35 instead of building their own, it doesn't affect the new reality that US aircraft cannot be trusted in wartime.
  - eunos 2y ago
    I'm highlighting more about EU conundrum here and I'm still amused that they still have energy to pick up fight with say China.
- rich_sasha 2y ago
  Thankfully, Russia doesn't really have 5th Gen either. Europe has a lot of solid 4+ gen planes: Rafale, Eurofighter, maybe Gripen. And I'm willing to guess that, especially with better trained pilots, these are potentially better than Russia's assortment. But there remains a question of quantity and determination.
  - varjag 2y ago
    The surviving Russian pilots are pretty competent at this point.
    - goatsi 2y ago
      The surviving Russian pilots fly towards the front line at a high altitude until they get close to the suspected range of Ukrainian air defences, drop glide bombs and then turn around. Sometimes the Ukrainians have snuck an air defence unit closer to the front lines without it being detected and the pilots exit the category of surviving Russian pilots. I'm not sure how applicable this would be to a confrontation with European countries. Russian fighters will get getting lots of flight hours on CAP as well, but not much combat based on reporting. Both sides are keeping everything inside their own AD bubbles.
      - varjag 2y ago
        It's not like European pilots operated in even a mildly contested airspace since 2011.

I'm willing to entertain the possibility that the Russian can improve the track record faster than the EU develops 5th gen fighters.

eitland 2y ago
So far their 5th generation fighter program has been an even worse embarrassement than the T14 Armata. Their own press photos shows uncovered Philips screws on a supposedly stealth aircraft, and their "loyal wingman" drone used the first opportunity near the frontlines to try to defect.
SiempreViernes 2y ago
Sure, but that risk is just something Europe has to eat as punishment for buying F-35 instead of building their own, it doesn't affect the new reality that US aircraft cannot be trusted in wartime.
- eunos 2y ago
  I'm highlighting more about EU conundrum here and I'm still amused that they still have energy to pick up fight with say China.
rich_sasha 2y ago
Thankfully, Russia doesn't really have 5th Gen either. Europe has a lot of solid 4+ gen planes: Rafale, Eurofighter, maybe Gripen. And I'm willing to guess that, especially with better trained pilots, these are potentially better than Russia's assortment. But there remains a question of quantity and determination.
- varjag 2y ago
  The surviving Russian pilots are pretty competent at this point.
  - goatsi 2y ago
    The surviving Russian pilots fly towards the front line at a high altitude until they get close to the suspected range of Ukrainian air defences, drop glide bombs and then turn around. Sometimes the Ukrainians have snuck an air defence unit closer to the front lines without it being detected and the pilots exit the category of surviving Russian pilots. I'm not sure how applicable this would be to a confrontation with European countries. Russian fighters will get getting lots of flight hours on CAP as well, but not much combat based on reporting. Both sides are keeping everything inside their own AD bubbles.
    - varjag 2y ago
      It's not like European pilots operated in even a mildly contested airspace since 2011.