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Please call me out if I'm just being delusional but I think VAT is a great way to tax rich people. They already have a lot of ways to avoid taxes, but at least

by Pooge 2y ago

Please call me out if I'm just being delusional but I think VAT is a great way to tax rich people. They already have a lot of ways to avoid taxes, but at least with VAT they pay the same as everybody else. They are going to buy expensive food or drinks at restaurants and 8% (in my country) of that is going to be taxed. Someone more modest is going to eat at a less expensive place and is going to pay 8% on something less expensive. I'm aware of the luxury tax but I don't think it's better than the VAT tax.

9283409232 2y ago
For people in poverty, 8% is the difference between getting that extra carton of eggs or not getting it. For rich people, it doesn't matter. It's not that VAT doesn't tax rich people it's that it taxes poor people a lot harder.
- Pooge 2y ago
  I completely get your point. What would you suggest, then?
  - 9283409232 2y ago
    A wealth tax, an estate tax, a tax on stock trades are all better options that hit the wealthy and not the poor.
    - Pooge 2y ago
      > A wealth tax, an estate tax Do you mean having a higher wealth and estate tax? They both exist where I live, although they tend to hit the poor much more than the rich. > tax on stock trades I agree on this one but I think it's not a good idea to penalize people that invest for the long term. Perhaps tax only trades that happened over less than 10 years or something.
      - 9283409232 2y ago
        I don't know where you live but the US doesn't have a wealth tax. You'll have to explain to me how a wealth tax hit the poor because the poor do not have wealth. A progressive wealth tax will tax someone based on net worth. By estate tax, I mean an inheritance tax which again, the poor typically don't leave massive inheritances so I'm not seeing how this hits the poor hard.
        Pooge 2y ago
        > You'll have to explain to me how a wealth tax hit the poor because the poor do not have wealth I'm sorry, perhaps "poor" wasn't the best word. But let me explain what I was thinking: I live in Switzerland where wealth tax is very much more annoying to the middle-class than the rich. This is because it starts at around CHF80'000--a lot of people qualify--and isn't taxed progressively above CHF2 million. While the rich will pay the highest tier, the middle-class is going to suffer from it much more because they don't invest their wealth. Basically, they are losing wealth, especially after taking inflation into account. Don't get me wrong, Switzerland is a very good country tax-wise. But your argument against VAT also works very much for other types of taxation. > By estate tax, I mean an inheritance tax which again, the poor typically don't leave massive inheritances so I'm not seeing how this hits the poor hard Yes, good point. In Switzerland there are actually only a few cantons that still have the inheritance tax. But I still think that most families would qualify for the estate tax. A middle class family is going to be hurt much more being taxed CHF10k than a rich one taxed CHF100k. I hope I made myself understandable.
        9283409232 2y ago
        You've made yourself very understandable, thank you for explaining further. Doing a Francs to Dollars conversion, 80,000 francs is around 90,000 USD. This is much lower than it should be in my opinion. For comparison, Biden's proposed wealth tax would only affect people with $1 billion in assets or people $100 million in income for three consecutive years[1]. This is not only less than 1% of the country, it's less than .01% of the country. I think the asset numbers are a bit high but as proposed, only the Musks and the Zuckerbergs would be affected. So the only issue I see with the Switzerland tax situation is that the numbers are too low and should be higher. The incentive should be to get people investing in the economy but not to a point of hoarding. [1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/whats-the-so-called-wealth-tax-in-bidens-proposed-bill-and-how-would-it-work https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/whats-the-so-called-weal...

by Pooge 2y ago

9283409232 2y ago

For people in poverty, 8% is the difference between getting that extra carton of eggs or not getting it. For rich people, it doesn't matter. It's not that VAT doesn't tax rich people it's that it taxes poor people a lot harder.

Pooge 2y ago
I completely get your point. What would you suggest, then?
- 9283409232 2y ago
  A wealth tax, an estate tax, a tax on stock trades are all better options that hit the wealthy and not the poor.
  - Pooge 2y ago
    > A wealth tax, an estate tax Do you mean having a higher wealth and estate tax? They both exist where I live, although they tend to hit the poor much more than the rich. > tax on stock trades I agree on this one but I think it's not a good idea to penalize people that invest for the long term. Perhaps tax only trades that happened over less than 10 years or something.
    - 9283409232 2y ago
      I don't know where you live but the US doesn't have a wealth tax. You'll have to explain to me how a wealth tax hit the poor because the poor do not have wealth. A progressive wealth tax will tax someone based on net worth. By estate tax, I mean an inheritance tax which again, the poor typically don't leave massive inheritances so I'm not seeing how this hits the poor hard.
      - Pooge 2y ago
        > You'll have to explain to me how a wealth tax hit the poor because the poor do not have wealth I'm sorry, perhaps "poor" wasn't the best word. But let me explain what I was thinking: I live in Switzerland where wealth tax is very much more annoying to the middle-class than the rich. This is because it starts at around CHF80'000--a lot of people qualify--and isn't taxed progressively above CHF2 million. While the rich will pay the highest tier, the middle-class is going to suffer from it much more because they don't invest their wealth. Basically, they are losing wealth, especially after taking inflation into account. Don't get me wrong, Switzerland is a very good country tax-wise. But your argument against VAT also works very much for other types of taxation. > By estate tax, I mean an inheritance tax which again, the poor typically don't leave massive inheritances so I'm not seeing how this hits the poor hard Yes, good point. In Switzerland there are actually only a few cantons that still have the inheritance tax. But I still think that most families would qualify for the estate tax. A middle class family is going to be hurt much more being taxed CHF10k than a rich one taxed CHF100k. I hope I made myself understandable.
        9283409232 2y ago
        You've made yourself very understandable, thank you for explaining further. Doing a Francs to Dollars conversion, 80,000 francs is around 90,000 USD. This is much lower than it should be in my opinion. For comparison, Biden's proposed wealth tax would only affect people with $1 billion in assets or people $100 million in income for three consecutive years[1]. This is not only less than 1% of the country, it's less than .01% of the country. I think the asset numbers are a bit high but as proposed, only the Musks and the Zuckerbergs would be affected. So the only issue I see with the Switzerland tax situation is that the numbers are too low and should be higher. The incentive should be to get people investing in the economy but not to a point of hoarding. [1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/whats-the-so-called-wealth-tax-in-bidens-proposed-bill-and-how-would-it-work https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/whats-the-so-called-weal...