7 ms·
Magnesium Self-Experiments
- ANarrativeApe 2y agoMy understanding is that the human body stores magnesium, said stores sufficient for approximately 30 days. As such, daily magnesium is far less important that the 30 day moving average.
- burning_hamster 2y agoIn theory, there is enough magnesium in your bones (~12 g) to cover your RDA (~400 mg) for 30 days [1]. However, only a third of that is available without strongly negatively affecting your health. So if your Mg stores are full (if!), then you have about 10 days worth "stored". However, your day-to-day Mg homeostasis is done by your kidneys, i.e. on a much, much shorter time scale. So your daily intake does matter, but sporadic deficiencies can be compensated for about 10 days. [1] Alawi et al. (2018) Magnesium and Human Health: Perspectives and Research Directions; https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5926493/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5926493/
- ggm 2y agoIncreasingly hard to get Mg tablets without Vitamin B and so increasingly easy to get excess B12. Australian formulations of magnesium sold by Swisse don't have B. The same branding in HK does. I wrote to them about it, interesting response: "check the therapeutic goods administration site for canonical ingredients we don't commit to labelling the jar" they do list the neutral filler and Mg they just don't say "no B12" B is typically included for synergistic uptake reasons I believe. Excess B12 is really bad. Neuropathy. Considering you take Mg to get rid of muscle cramps (pain, conducted by nerves), a bit ironic. It's increasingly common in Australia now. Excess Mg is unlikely. I think the body chucks it out in Urine pretty rapidly. I still take it, the cramps after sport return within a few months when I stop. I have a fruit and veg rich diet, I get plenty of natural Mg and K which is also good for muscle cramps. Age related insufficiency I suspect (63) malabsorption comes with age.
- chinathrow 2y agoMy doc said there is no scientific proof that Mg works against cramps. Is that true?
- ggm 2y agoI'd always believe a doctor over anonymous internet experiences. If your doctor thinks it's not helpful, follow their advice. I found my cramps stopped, but anecdata is not evidence.
- askvictor 2y agoWhile _on the whole_ I would side with doctors over random people on the Internet, I've had a number of cases where the doctor has been outright wrong, whether misdiagnosis, or not being up to date with current research.
- toast0 2y agoThe doctor didn't say it doesn't work. Just that it's not scientific. But if your lived experience says it works, it doesn't really need to have scientific evidence. The real question is if there is evidence that relevant doesea of magnesium supplements are harmful, and if so, how those harms compare to the cramps you're experiencing. There's all sorts of unscientific stuff out there, some of which is harmful. But if it's not harmful, it's worth trying. If you get frequent cramps and you don't want to try magnesium supplements, you could try going out of your way to eat more foods that are known to be high in magnesium, most of which are generally considered healthy and there you go; choosing to eat a bit more leafy greens doesn't feel risky unless you've got an alergy. Having a banana to get potasium should be fine for most too, unless the fruit sugar is a problem or if there's an allergy.
- mantas 2y agoBut it works for me and I know more anecdata cases. Maybe it depends on technical cause of what seems to be cramps. And maybe it helps indirectly by helping some other process in the body. But in ny experience there’s direct correlation between magnesium intake and cramps and nail health. I’ve a feeling genetics may be involved since my kid also has similar tendencies. And doctor we went to for his night cramps did suggest magnesium which worked. So whether there’s research or not, doctors do suggest it and it does seem to help at least in some cases.
- NotGMan 2y agoI always had cramps no matter how much magnesium I took. It wasn't until I went low carb that cramps dissapeared, even without taking magnesium.
- wolfi1 2y agoAre you a Type II- diabetic? Night cramps seem to appear in diabetics when their metabolism is not well adjusted. Did you let check your A1C?
- NotGMan 2y agoNot diabetic. Wore GCM multiple times. Did A1C and insulin tests. My body just doens't like carbs. My cramps weren't night cramps, but sport/exercise cramps.
- genewitch 2y agoAll carbs, or grasses?
- mint2 2y agoFun fact - Low magnesium can contribute to type II diabetes. It’s been found certain people not responding to improved diet and medication have the A1C drop after starting mg. Of course, if low Mg isn’t a factor then supplementation will do squat.
- scns 2y agoCramps can come from Calcium and Potassium too.
- anjel 2y agoOr excessive creatine consumption. Also, sleep disturbance.
- rapsey 2y agoI struggled with sleep for years and years. If I exercised the insomnia would be the worst. Lately I've figured out that magnesium and B6 (p5p form) are the missing piece I have needed. I've been taking magnesium for a long time, but B6 finally allowed me to actually experience improved sleep after exercise.
- mettamage 2y agoNeat! For me: I need 0.3 mg melatonin almost every day to control my sleep and do a bunch of other things. The onset is between 1 to 3 hours. In practice it means I need to be okay with an early wake-up if it kicks in within 1 hour. When I feel jittery/trembly I need magnesium as my jitters stop when I take it.
- piazz 2y ago> Do a bunch of other things Curious about this! Currently trying to figure out a good 0.3mg melatonin dosing regimine for myself.
- wanderer2323 2y agoHav you read https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-th... ?
- terribleperson 2y agoBe very careful about that B6 dosage. It's possible to overdose on b6 at surprisingly low doses. It doesn't usually cause permanent damage, but anecdotal reports suggest it can take months to a year to recover from b6 neuropathy.
- genewitch 2y agoWhat is "too high a dose"? I imagine the magnesium self regulates because you'll be on the toilet more often than not. People on HN crack me up. We're smart enough to know that supplements can be beneficial, and how, but not so smart we don't need a nanny to tell us to be careful?
- roenxi 2y agoThose charts aren't very clear; given that GGPlot is already on the scene it'd probably pay dividends to bin the data in some form. I'd be starting with geom_boxplot grouped by week myself. Trying to interpret that sort of wild squiggling in the 2nd plot is not the path to happiness.
- _0ffh 2y agoAnother thing why magnesium oxide could not be the optimal compound for you: It's a laxative. That might be good to know before you start daily supplementation. Personally, I have bisglycinate.
- lifty 2y agoI’ve tried probably most forms of Magnesium and they all upset my digestion, unless I take a small dose.
- derektank 2y agoI've been advised that Magnesium supplementation improves the efficacy of ibuprofen and acetaminophen in treating tension headaches by my physician.
- genewitch 2y agoMagnesium glycinate works for something like 30% of migrane sufferers too. Specifically that one. I wish everyone would specify what formulation with supplements. I.e. vit D, is it cholecalciferol or calcidiol? It matters. Also D2 in mushrooms exposed to the sun, even dried, works, eventually. But rare in supplements!
- viggity 2y agoI've posted many times about how my relationship with opioids (prescribed Rx, not street drugs) is improved when I'm good about taking my magnesium, which I started decades ago because it was supposed to help with atkins/keto. Many people have chimed in that what is likely happening is that Mg helps your ATP, and I'm probably just metabolizing it better. I've also seen other posts about Mg being an NMDA antagonist. If you're interested, those may be additional things you'd want to look into.
- mattlondon 2y agoThis is great and all but how can you objectively measure something like "mood" or "productivity"? There are a lot of variables, even in your day to day work activities (e.g. you never debug & implement a fix for the exact same bug twice...one bug might be a satisfying and enjoyable activity, another might be a frustrating, difficult, and tedious pain in the ass) I've done similar trials with magnesium glcyinate and personally not noticed any difference. But then I have not found any way to accurately measure differences between what a "good day" is Vs a "bad day". Even without supplementing, it feels like dice roll at the best of times
- vasco 2y ago> There are a lot of variables, even in your day to day work activities I consistently find the only thing I can correlate reliably is sleep quality assessment upon waking up. If I feel great and rested I know my performance during the day will be better at pretty much everything.
- seer 2y agoI haven’t seen any cognitive / mood difference for me when taking magnesium supplements in any form. But then I went to one of those sensory deprivation chambers, where they use magnesium salts to change the water’s buoyancy. I felt the most content and happy in my life for a week after. It was really bizarre - I would “just not care” about pressures at work, failing personal relationships, any stress really. And I remained effective, just with a higher EQ because I wouldn’t overthink things. Tried it some more times with similar effect. So now when I end up in a situation where I build up stress and can’t seem to get to a chill state - just go for a deprivation tank and align myself back, though I try not to get into a situation where I need one altogether.
- guerrilla 2y agoI don't know but we can measure stress reliably by HRV. It correlates extremely well with fatigue in general. For me personally, I think it correlates with mood and productivity directly, or at least the preconditions for them.
- justlikereddit 2y ago
- Amekedl 2y agoRefer to Magnesium-based Lifeform from Disco Elysium, it is very accurate.
- nurettin 2y agoThese "self experiments" all feel like an elaborate ruse to validate their substance abuse.
- teddyh 2y agoAt least 90% of all “bio hackers” right there.
- thisislife2 2y agoOr for social media marketing by pharmaceutical companies. Who knows who writes these things?
- diderot1 2y agoThere is certainly a lack of intellectual humility. I would consider this kind of "biohacking" to be the fallacy of complexity-seeking. If one is looking to be healthy, the effort is much better spent on getting good sleep, healthy well balanced diet, regular exercise, maintain social relationships, manage stress. No one wants to hear this because simplicity is boring, and useless for social-status signaling. Vitamins and all the other biohacking stuff is nonsense that gets in the way of that, with minimal benefit, and opening oneself to harms (in a rumsfeldian known known, known unknown, and unknown unknown sense).
- dr_dshiv 2y agoMagnesium — cheap & plain-as-possible magnesium pills — are a great laxative. I suspect that this has follow-on psychological effects. All the expensive pills are just to avoid the laxative effect. No further benefit. So if you think a good dump contributes to your wellbeing, consider the plain stuff.
- beagle3 2y agoThere is no such thing as “plain”. You can’t eat pure magnesium. mg oxide is cheap, but apparently mostly laxative. Mg citrate is part laxative but also absorbed. Mg glycinate is more expensive but avoids the laxative effect. For the muscle relaxant effect (other than perhaps bowel muscles), mg oxide is hardly useful.
- dr_dshiv 2y ago> For the muscle relaxant effect (other than perhaps bowel muscles), mg oxide is hardly useful. This is what I’m questioning. Most of these variants are claiming subtler psychological effects — when the basic stuff has a very direct effect that I think is positive. I always just buy the magnesium pills that just say “magnesium.”
- mint2 2y agoWell please read things more carefully in the future. No one sells pills of pure magnesium - that would be eating metal shavings or metal beads. It is ALWAYS a magnesium ion paired with an anion of some sort. Is that what you mean? Ones with only magnesium salt or oxide - I.e citrate, carbonate etc
- sidewndr46 2y agoAs others have illustrated no one sells "magnesium" pills. It is a pill of magnesium reacted with something else. The source of this varies as to whether or not the product wants to be considered as vegetarian, kosher, or otherwise.
- xattt 2y ago
- 4gotunameagain 2y agoIs anyone aware of an app that can facilitate these types of experiments ? Ideal features: Notification to self report things such as mood, quality of sleep. Tracking of custom activities/actions (whether you worked out, drunk, or whatever) Data export in csv :)
- ventedmouse 2y agoBevel health might fit that bill https://www.bevel.health/ https://www.bevel.health/ It's an app that tracks your health parameters, automatically giving you insights along the way iOS only and requires an Apple Watch, but the deep of tracking coupled with the ease of use is amazing. It gives you a strain, recovery and sleep score that is very accurate. It syncs with your Apple Watch so you can see in depth markers such as HRV and total sleep time, with some metrics that the standard health app doesn't show. It automatically tracks a bunch of health markers. For example, It keeps track of how much zone 2 cardio I did, the amount of steps I did, the amount of daylight I had in a day, the noise of my bedroom, and a bunch of other measurements. You can also add custom measurements. I added one for taking my sleep supplements as a custom one, and I can see on the days I took it my objective sleep parameters are improved. It gives you a percentage score for each activity or action and its impact on your sleep or recovery. For example, I see if I have a late meal, it negatively impacts my sleep by 17%. It's not the most scientific app out there, but the simplicity of its design coupled with its sleek interface has made me incorporate some good habits. Oh god I just noticed how much this sounds like an ad, but it's one of my favorite purchases this year!
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- physicles 2y agoReflect for iOS (black and blue circle icon). I found today on a search through Reddit r/QuantifiedSelf. The UI isn’t that polished, but it’s super customizable and has JSON export. Also has built-in analytics, like experiments. Previously I was using Daylio, but that only allows you to make one entry per day.
- elric 2y agoSome more anecdata: magnesium greatly reduces annoying muscle twitches for me. I get them quite frequently when I don't take magnesium for a while. Magnesium citrate is easily available here, without added vitamin b6. No side effects from what I've observed over the years.
- jbotz 2y agoAlso muscle cramps. I like to stretch out all my muscles when I first wake up while still in bed and when I don't supplement magnesium this has sometimes triggered cramps in leg muscles. When supplementing magnesium this never happen, and the stretched muscles feel better, more relaxed.
- jnellis 2y agoI find this to be true as well. I have nerve damage/pressure from bad back. If I miss a dose before bed, I almost invariably get a calf cramp in the early morning hours before waking. Very annoying, only way to get rid of it is get out of bed and stand up on it. I think flooding the body with the magnesium before bed, before it has a chance to maybe get rid of excess perhaps, because taking it too far from bedtime I'll still have twitches and cramps.
- K0balt 2y agoAlso lowers blood pressure for me.
- hiAndrewQuinn 2y agoAlways love to see a Gwern article on the front page. I threw some cash his way for changing my life over a decade ago with his page on spaced repetition, and more recently for his page on using pure nicotine to form other habits.
- codethief 2y ago> There are no published human trials as of October 2015 This has changed: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9786204/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9786204/ Notably, though, their results indicate effects on cognition and memory, which the OP's experiments don't seem to address.
- zingababba 2y agoI have similar experiences to gwern with mag, surprisingly easy to overdose leading to a less than optimal state. After 25 years of messing with supplements I've settled on just thiamine and b12 with any regularity, and only inject-able at that.
- kvhdude 2y agomy own anecdotal experience with magnesium : i was generally prone to leg cramps even when young that usually subsides when i take salty water. i had developed hyperthroidism in late 90s that was treated eventually with radio-iodide. subsequently i went into hypothyroid state. soon after was a violent cramps episode which became regular that even if i took few hundred steps my legs would start cramping up. A steep descent into quality of life had me try many many tests as the initial suspicion was some kind of clot. Quite painful nerve conduction velocity tests were done. I was the subject of academic curiosity at stanford hospital. I was on codeine and other pain medications. After a year of this, one day happened to talk to a regular doctor (no specialization), who treats patients from asian subcontinent. He said that i may have magnesium deficiency which was apparently common for my ethnic background. Since by that time i had tried everything, this was an easy choice. Just a couple of weeks in with cal-mag citrate (400mg/day), felt something different in my legs and the whole nigthmare just lifted. I was able to return to hikes etc and would only occasionally need magnesium. It has been 2 decades since, and i dont take magnesium anymore and do strenous workouts and never again triggered any cramps episode.
- sizzle 2y agoSeems like you would benefit from magnesium no? Our bodies don’t produce it (correct me if I’m mistaken). Magnesium Glycinate makes me sleep like a baby at night.
- kvhdude 2y agoI took glycinate for a while. Deep sleep with lots of dreams. But soon followed extreme pressure in head with severe headache that i completely stopped.
- breadwinner 2y agoMagnesium solved my muscle tightness, and insomnia. These are the products that work for me: Magnesium Lysinate Glycinate from Doctor's Best, and Magnesium Taurate from Double Wood.
- cfraenkel 2y agoAn aspect missing from the article and comments here is that magnesium is also available as a topical application. I have some in a spray that I can apply to my knees before bed, we also get some from a local source in a cream base for massaging into muscles. That lets you focus the application without dosing your entire system with it.
- F0UKYOU-HN 2y agoKinda what he stated when he mentioned Epsom Salts in a bath. Which would be magnesium applied 'topically' (externally)
- burning_hamster 2y agoIt is worth noting that these topical applications are quite controversial in the medical literature. The evidence supporting a dermal absorption of magnesium (or other electrolytes) is pretty poor [1]. [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5579607/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5579607/
- Nemi 2y agoJust some input on Magnesium Chloride for me. I have found it is the best for me as Chloride has no “effects” of its own, unlike things like Glycinate. Glycinate is good if it works for you, but I get wired and can’t sleep. I take citrate-based supplements for Calcium and Potassium, but mag citrate causes a lot of GI distress for me. None with chloride. The bad thing? Mag Chloride is highly hydroscopic. You really can’t make it into a pill or they get all weird and goopy. So to get Mag Chloride you have to get it in a liquid form and it is moderately expensive. Worse than the expense, it tastes positively horrid. Still, it has the best impact on my sleep than other forms, so take that for what it is worth.
- ivankra 2y agoYou can apply it topically - look for magnesium oil sprays, these are usually just concentrated magnesium chloride. Works well too, gets absorbed systemically totally bypassing digestion, only side effect is oily skin. Reportedly, excess amounts over what the body can handle wouldn't get topically absorbed (unlike orally) and leave a white residue and that's how you'd know you've had enough - but I never had that happen to me personally.
- burning_hamster 2y agoIt is worth noting that these topical applications are quite controversial in the medical literature. The evidence supporting a dermal absorption of magnesium (or other electrolytes) is pretty poor [1]. In that sense: yes, it would be exceedingly difficult to overdose using them. [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5579607/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5579607/
- ivankra 2y agoUnderresearched topic for sure. They do cite studies that show some effects, just not convincing enough. Perhaps the weak effects are because they seem to overindex on serum magnesium levels, which is just not a good marker of magnesium status (unless very deficient). It's largely an intracellular/skeletal element and serum levels are quickly maintained by kidneys within a narrow range. Magnesium RBC is a much better biomarker but it's hard to find any studies that focus on it. Here's one but in a non-mainstream journal: https://ijlbpr.com/uploadfiles/462vol12issue2pp2557-2563.20230630080222.pdf https://ijlbpr.com/uploadfiles/462vol12issue2pp2557-2563.202... Anectodally, while on B6, I had a period of magnesium intolerance - it was a reliable trigger for my dysautonomia flares. I did have reactions to magnesium chloride spray - tachycardia, blood pressure spike, sometimes headache within ~15 minutes of applying it.