8 ms·

> It's a common misconception that tons of users manually install Chrome, but Google just pays PC makers to make Chrome the default browser Maybe 10 years ago,

> It's a common misconception that tons of users manually install Chrome, but Google just pays PC makers to make Chrome the default browser Maybe 10 years ago, but which ones do it now? thinkpads and HP machines, at least, ship with Edge as the default. Dell or something? Windows is also _hyper_ aggressive about pushing Edge now too. Like it's nuts how hard it pushes it, to the point that it embarrasses people who do actually prefer Edge. "Recommending" at every turn that you not switch, having the edge browser itself warn against downloading Chrome, pushing edge into various OS-level browser launches even if it's not your default, and, of course, randomly resetting the browser default on various updates. edit: at least from this page, it's edge by default on at least some dell machines too, but I haven't owned one in so long I won't say that for sure: https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000128257/how-to-change-the-default-applications-within-windows-10 https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000128257/how-to-ch... It doesn't seem to be a default on PCs.

garyfirestorm 2y ago
I don’t remember chrome being default anywhere. You always needed to open edge to download chrome and I have installed windows numerous times in past.
- throwaway127482 2y ago
  Chromebooks are a thing, and are extremely popular
  - tgma 2y ago
    > extremely popular for really small amounts of "extremely" (outside US K-12 they are hardly a thing)
    - jay_kyburz 2y ago
      And Australian K-12 too :)
    - mentalgear 2y ago
      crucial though, that's were audiences get introduced with their software
    - lukeschlather 2y ago
      I wouldn't be surprised if Chromebooks alone gave Chrome more market share than Firefox.
    - nmstoker 2y ago
      They don't do so badly in the UK with non-technical types (eg the elderly) especially where a full computer isn't safe or supportable.
    - vincent-manis 2y ago
      I have a very nice Chromebook tablet (a Lenovo Duet). I use it to run a Debian Linux VM; it has its quirks, but I use it to run Emacs, TeX, and various Scheme implementations. It is relatively cheap, and even though it's a relatively low-powered device, it has adequate performance for my needs. (And yes, it is not “really” Linux: you can't install your own window manager, for example. But it's usable.) I have lots of criticisms of Chrome OS, but the fact is that the year of Linux on the Desktop has arrived. You buy one of these machines, and out of the box you can have Linux apps (and a terminal) running within 15 minutes of switching the machine on.
      - tgma 2y ago
        Yea, I don't disagree it is a decent product. I was just refuting the "extremely popular" comment. Statistically their market share is minimal. People still by-and-large buy Microsoft Windows laptops.
  - jhasse 2y ago
    German here. I know 0 people who own a Chromebook. In fact I think I have never seen one in my entire life (outside of a store). Schools I know are using Windows laptops or iPads.
- soerxpso 2y ago
  I believe the claim was that it's coming default on prebuilt PCs. If you're installing Windows, that's not the situation where Chrome would be the default.
  - fastball 2y ago
    Right but what OS is installed on a pre-built PC if not Windows?
    - behindsight 2y ago
      not sure what exactly that has to do with prebuilt versions of Windows that come with bloatware/adware or other nonstandard customisations?
      - zinekeller 2y ago
        I think the GP has only encountered business laptops (which don't have as much bloatware). I can confirm that current "normie" laptops (from HP at least) do already have Chrome installed, although it is unclear if this is as part of paid marketing or just to reduce support headaches. Also, there was the time where Google pays antivirus companies like then-Avast to shove Chrome. Unsure if it is still happens, but this points out to how Chrome can pay through the marketshare.
  - jpc0 2y ago
    I do a lot of IT support. Edge is the default on every single prebuilt / laptop I have setup for people. This is ancedotal sure but it's several hundred datapoints from the cheapest student focused budget laptops(running windows not chrome os) to business grade laptops from the big 3 (HP/Dell/Lenovo). Apple ships Safari by default and every linux distro I have used ships firefox or a spinoff of firefox by default. So in my experience Chrome is actively installed by the local it help (me, things are just plain broken for some use cases on non-chrome). I personally do not use Chrome, that doesn't mean I won't make it the default for every PC I touch for an enduser purely because I get less calls for support when users are using chrome. It's no secret that I feel like other search engines are worse that Google even though Google's results are nearly unusable. Google built a mote by having a better product, nobody else tried to compete and now it's become nearly impossible to compete. I actively avoid Chromium based browsers personally but even then I need to have one installed because even in Firefox and Safari derived browsers things are broken or website just plain don't work (https//f1.tv actively does not work on firefox as an example, unless they have since backtracked)
derektank 2y ago
I can confirm Dell's default for Windows devices is Edge. I believe Dell's Ubuntu laptops come with both Firefox and Chrome installed.
gscott 2y ago
If you buy a cheap computer with Windows S it is very hard to get out of the S configuration and in S configuration you can't install Chrome at all or Firefox.
- gnabgib 2y ago
  You can switch out of S mode (for free) https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of-s-mode-in-windows-4f56d9be-99ec-6983-119f-031bfb28a307 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of...
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    Doing it that way is a pain if don't want to create a microsoft account, which when tries to convert your computer account to a microsoft account. Pretending that it's easy to switch by requiring you to use the microsoft store to do so is a really shitty antipattern.
    - alt227 2y ago
      99% of Windows users use a microsoft account these days, so this method is trivial for most.
- dboreham 2y ago
  Not very hard in my experience. Not even hard.
  - Panzer04 2y ago
    But very much nonobvious. I recently had to help one of my parents when they couldn't figure out how to install some software, and it turned out to be S - but I had to do a bunch of digging to figure it out and I'm good with computers.
jimnotgym 2y ago
Before Edge, everyone had to install Chrome because the web wouldn't work with IE. It is still the case that some major sites don't work with Firefox either. Edge is as close to a de-Googled Chrome as you can get to work properly. Unfortunately de-Googling meant re-Microsofting
- eastbound 2y ago
  The web wouldn’t work with IE just because Microsoft had this unique strategy of deviating from standards, having non-working APIs and providing an awful experience to developers. It’s unique. Firefox compliance is another story, but very mild compared to IE. Chrome also had to deal with compatibility issues when Firefox was the leader, but Mozilla relinquished their leadership position because it was very important to them to fire their CEO / original writer of Javascript for ideological reasons - he had given $1000 to an anti-abortion NGO, which is an unacceptable thoughtcrime. Then they spent their time politicking and not enough coding. Sounds like the history of browsers is just made of strategic mistakes.
  - SQueeeeeL 2y ago
    Yeah, I really feel like Brenden pretty much screwed over the entire browser scene by going all political and not doing his heavy lifting of reading the mid 00s political zeitgeist better. Feels like he doomed us all to live under Google's boot for his poorly timed performative activism.
  - bad_user 2y ago
    > he had given $1000 to an anti-abortion NGO That's not what he did. He donated for California's Prop 8, which opposed same-sex marriage, in 2008. I'm personally not judging, as many US progressives have forgotten that during those days, even Obama opposed same-sex marriage. But it's important to get the facts straight, even when being sarcastic. --- > Then they spent their time politicking and not enough coding. Mozilla's management certainly is guilty of blunders, but I'm pretty sure the developers who have worked on Mozilla don't feel like they've spent time “politicking”. The failure of Firefox in the marketplace starts from the fact that it's pretty hard to compete with a browser that's funded with more than 1 billion $ per year. And people may not remember much about the launch of Chrome, but it was literally years ahead of its competition. Have a look at its famous comic book, with which it was announced, describing its design and philosophy, and count the years it took for the competition to catch up (across the board, including Safari): https://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome/ https://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome/ I mean, sure, you can blame that on politics, but I don't think anyone was able to stop the decline and when Brendan Eich resigned, people were already talking about Chrome's hegemony and Firefox dying.
doctaj 2y ago
Wouldn’t it be funny if the aggressive “are you sure you want to leave Edge?!” kind of messages actually made people ton the whole think it was a lower quality product…

garyfirestorm 2y ago

I don’t remember chrome being default anywhere. You always needed to open edge to download chrome and I have installed windows numerous times in past.

throwaway127482 2y ago
Chromebooks are a thing, and are extremely popular
- tgma 2y ago
  > extremely popular for really small amounts of "extremely" (outside US K-12 they are hardly a thing)
  - jay_kyburz 2y ago
    And Australian K-12 too :)
  - mentalgear 2y ago
    crucial though, that's were audiences get introduced with their software
  - lukeschlather 2y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if Chromebooks alone gave Chrome more market share than Firefox.
  - nmstoker 2y ago
    They don't do so badly in the UK with non-technical types (eg the elderly) especially where a full computer isn't safe or supportable.
  - vincent-manis 2y ago
    I have a very nice Chromebook tablet (a Lenovo Duet). I use it to run a Debian Linux VM; it has its quirks, but I use it to run Emacs, TeX, and various Scheme implementations. It is relatively cheap, and even though it's a relatively low-powered device, it has adequate performance for my needs. (And yes, it is not “really” Linux: you can't install your own window manager, for example. But it's usable.) I have lots of criticisms of Chrome OS, but the fact is that the year of Linux on the Desktop has arrived. You buy one of these machines, and out of the box you can have Linux apps (and a terminal) running within 15 minutes of switching the machine on.
    - tgma 2y ago
      Yea, I don't disagree it is a decent product. I was just refuting the "extremely popular" comment. Statistically their market share is minimal. People still by-and-large buy Microsoft Windows laptops.
- jhasse 2y ago
  German here. I know 0 people who own a Chromebook. In fact I think I have never seen one in my entire life (outside of a store). Schools I know are using Windows laptops or iPads.
soerxpso 2y ago
I believe the claim was that it's coming default on prebuilt PCs. If you're installing Windows, that's not the situation where Chrome would be the default.
- fastball 2y ago
  Right but what OS is installed on a pre-built PC if not Windows?
  - behindsight 2y ago
    not sure what exactly that has to do with prebuilt versions of Windows that come with bloatware/adware or other nonstandard customisations?
    - zinekeller 2y ago
      I think the GP has only encountered business laptops (which don't have as much bloatware). I can confirm that current "normie" laptops (from HP at least) do already have Chrome installed, although it is unclear if this is as part of paid marketing or just to reduce support headaches. Also, there was the time where Google pays antivirus companies like then-Avast to shove Chrome. Unsure if it is still happens, but this points out to how Chrome can pay through the marketshare.
- jpc0 2y ago
  I do a lot of IT support. Edge is the default on every single prebuilt / laptop I have setup for people. This is ancedotal sure but it's several hundred datapoints from the cheapest student focused budget laptops(running windows not chrome os) to business grade laptops from the big 3 (HP/Dell/Lenovo). Apple ships Safari by default and every linux distro I have used ships firefox or a spinoff of firefox by default. So in my experience Chrome is actively installed by the local it help (me, things are just plain broken for some use cases on non-chrome). I personally do not use Chrome, that doesn't mean I won't make it the default for every PC I touch for an enduser purely because I get less calls for support when users are using chrome. It's no secret that I feel like other search engines are worse that Google even though Google's results are nearly unusable. Google built a mote by having a better product, nobody else tried to compete and now it's become nearly impossible to compete. I actively avoid Chromium based browsers personally but even then I need to have one installed because even in Firefox and Safari derived browsers things are broken or website just plain don't work (https//f1.tv actively does not work on firefox as an example, unless they have since backtracked)

derektank 2y ago

I can confirm Dell's default for Windows devices is Edge. I believe Dell's Ubuntu laptops come with both Firefox and Chrome installed.

gscott 2y ago

If you buy a cheap computer with Windows S it is very hard to get out of the S configuration and in S configuration you can't install Chrome at all or Firefox.

gnabgib 2y ago
You can switch out of S mode (for free) https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of-s-mode-in-windows-4f56d9be-99ec-6983-119f-031bfb28a307 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of...
- Suppafly 2y ago
  Doing it that way is a pain if don't want to create a microsoft account, which when tries to convert your computer account to a microsoft account. Pretending that it's easy to switch by requiring you to use the microsoft store to do so is a really shitty antipattern.
  - alt227 2y ago
    99% of Windows users use a microsoft account these days, so this method is trivial for most.
dboreham 2y ago
Not very hard in my experience. Not even hard.
- Panzer04 2y ago
  But very much nonobvious. I recently had to help one of my parents when they couldn't figure out how to install some software, and it turned out to be S - but I had to do a bunch of digging to figure it out and I'm good with computers.

jimnotgym 2y ago

Before Edge, everyone had to install Chrome because the web wouldn't work with IE. It is still the case that some major sites don't work with Firefox either. Edge is as close to a de-Googled Chrome as you can get to work properly. Unfortunately de-Googling meant re-Microsofting

eastbound 2y ago
The web wouldn’t work with IE just because Microsoft had this unique strategy of deviating from standards, having non-working APIs and providing an awful experience to developers. It’s unique. Firefox compliance is another story, but very mild compared to IE. Chrome also had to deal with compatibility issues when Firefox was the leader, but Mozilla relinquished their leadership position because it was very important to them to fire their CEO / original writer of Javascript for ideological reasons - he had given $1000 to an anti-abortion NGO, which is an unacceptable thoughtcrime. Then they spent their time politicking and not enough coding. Sounds like the history of browsers is just made of strategic mistakes.
- SQueeeeeL 2y ago
  Yeah, I really feel like Brenden pretty much screwed over the entire browser scene by going all political and not doing his heavy lifting of reading the mid 00s political zeitgeist better. Feels like he doomed us all to live under Google's boot for his poorly timed performative activism.
- bad_user 2y ago
  > he had given $1000 to an anti-abortion NGO That's not what he did. He donated for California's Prop 8, which opposed same-sex marriage, in 2008. I'm personally not judging, as many US progressives have forgotten that during those days, even Obama opposed same-sex marriage. But it's important to get the facts straight, even when being sarcastic. --- > Then they spent their time politicking and not enough coding. Mozilla's management certainly is guilty of blunders, but I'm pretty sure the developers who have worked on Mozilla don't feel like they've spent time “politicking”. The failure of Firefox in the marketplace starts from the fact that it's pretty hard to compete with a browser that's funded with more than 1 billion $ per year. And people may not remember much about the launch of Chrome, but it was literally years ahead of its competition. Have a look at its famous comic book, with which it was announced, describing its design and philosophy, and count the years it took for the competition to catch up (across the board, including Safari): https://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome/ https://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome/ I mean, sure, you can blame that on politics, but I don't think anyone was able to stop the decline and when Brendan Eich resigned, people were already talking about Chrome's hegemony and Firefox dying.

doctaj 2y ago

Wouldn’t it be funny if the aggressive “are you sure you want to leave Edge?!” kind of messages actually made people ton the whole think it was a lower quality product…