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It was not about caving in but about democracy, that is to say respecting what a vast majority of electors wanted. Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/ite

It was not about caving in but about democracy, that is to say respecting what a vast majority of electors wanted. Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29173164 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29173164 Effects: https://x.com/HannoKlausmeier/status/1784158942823690561 https://x.com/HannoKlausmeier/status/1784158942823690561

account42 2y ago
It's no longer about democracy when public opinion is largely dictated by government funded television. And yes, the government forcing it citizens to pay directly doesn't make it any less government funded.
- natmaka 2y ago
  Does "television" here means "lies"? In such a case I already answered: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43328808 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43328808 > government forcing it citizens to pay directly doesn't make it any less government funded Sorry, I'm lost. What is "forcing it citizens to pay directly" referring to?
  - account42 2y ago
    > Does "television" here means "lies"? In such a case I already answered: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43328808 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43328808 Your linked post is not an answer at all. > Sorry, I'm lost. What is "forcing it citizens to pay directly" referring to? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARD_ZDF_Deutschlandradio_Beitragsservice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARD_ZDF_Deutschlandradio_Beitr... Essentially the government forces you into a contract that you have no say in that is totally not a tax. Because as a tax it would be illegal, so it can't be one.
    - natmaka 2y ago
      Yes, this is abusive, however (back to our subject) AFAIK there is free media in Germany (TV, radio, newspapers...), and they enjoy a fair audience. Therefore in Germany public opinion isn't really managed by the government. A. Merkel was pro-nuclear (she holds a PhD in quantum chemistry). During the 2000's she tried hard to slow down the phase-out process, and extended reactors' life in September 2010.

account42 2y ago

It's no longer about democracy when public opinion is largely dictated by government funded television. And yes, the government forcing it citizens to pay directly doesn't make it any less government funded.

natmaka 2y ago
Does "television" here means "lies"? In such a case I already answered: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43328808 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43328808 > government forcing it citizens to pay directly doesn't make it any less government funded Sorry, I'm lost. What is "forcing it citizens to pay directly" referring to?
- account42 2y ago
  > Does "television" here means "lies"? In such a case I already answered: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43328808 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43328808 Your linked post is not an answer at all. > Sorry, I'm lost. What is "forcing it citizens to pay directly" referring to? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARD_ZDF_Deutschlandradio_Beitragsservice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARD_ZDF_Deutschlandradio_Beitr... Essentially the government forces you into a contract that you have no say in that is totally not a tax. Because as a tax it would be illegal, so it can't be one.
  - natmaka 2y ago
    Yes, this is abusive, however (back to our subject) AFAIK there is free media in Germany (TV, radio, newspapers...), and they enjoy a fair audience. Therefore in Germany public opinion isn't really managed by the government. A. Merkel was pro-nuclear (she holds a PhD in quantum chemistry). During the 2000's she tried hard to slow down the phase-out process, and extended reactors' life in September 2010.