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> I'm busy disengaging from US based services. Can you explain why? From privacy and free speech perspectives aren’t US services now better? Kagi now probably

> I'm busy disengaging from US based services. Can you explain why? From privacy and free speech perspectives aren’t US services now better? Kagi now probably has the best search privacy features in the world after recent upgrades with Privacy Pass and even a ToR endpoint.

upcoming-sesame 2y ago
Because the recent trade war has started a trend of "buy European' across the continent buy-european-made.eu
- alchemist1e9 2y ago
  Before these trade war escalations the US imposed an average tariff rate of about 3.5% on EU goods, notably lower than the EU’s 5.2% on US goods, and lacked the high, sector-specific tariffs seen in the EU. While the US maintained a relatively uniform rate, 2.5% on cars and slightly higher on food and chemicals—the EU targeted certain US sectors with very steep tariffs, like 32.3% on dairy. We should also mention VAT. The EU’s 21% VAT jacks up prices, a €100 item hitting €121 will slash demand. This provided around €1 trillion revenue for EU governments in 2024. While the US’s typical 7% sales tax keeps a $100 item at $107, hurting demand less, total about $457 billion in 2024. This gap makes US goods pricier in the EU (27.7% markup with tariffs) versus EU goods in the US (10.8% markup), acting like an extra trade wall for American exports, while the EU’s VAT refund on exports gives their firms a edge. Notice we haven’t even mentioned defense spending yet …
  - Phelinofist 2y ago
    Do you understand that stuff made in Europe and sold in Europe is also subject to the VAT?
    - berdario 2y ago
      it seems he also overlooked, in his tirade against EU VAT, that almost the whole world has VAT. It's just an handful of countries like USA and Malaysia that are the weird ones, and don't implement a VAT tax
      - 9283409232 2y ago
        VAT is a reductive tax that taxes the poor instead of the rich. Coincidentally, Trump supports adding VAT to the US.
        Pooge 2y ago
        Please call me out if I'm just being delusional but I think VAT is a great way to tax rich people. They already have a lot of ways to avoid taxes, but at least with VAT they pay the same as everybody else. They are going to buy expensive food or drinks at restaurants and 8% (in my country) of that is going to be taxed. Someone more modest is going to eat at a less expensive place and is going to pay 8% on something less expensive. I'm aware of the luxury tax but I don't think it's better than the VAT tax.
        9283409232 2y ago
        For people in poverty, 8% is the difference between getting that extra carton of eggs or not getting it. For rich people, it doesn't matter. It's not that VAT doesn't tax rich people it's that it taxes poor people a lot harder.
        Pooge 2y ago
        I completely get your point. What would you suggest, then?
        9283409232 2y ago
        A wealth tax, an estate tax, a tax on stock trades are all better options that hit the wealthy and not the poor.
  - wasabi991011 2y ago
    I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that the EU isn't being "fair" to the US? I'm not sure how that would change the incentive for European citizens to rely more on European products in the face of possible future tariffs.
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    Clown in charge is more than enough reason to divest from US.
- palata 2y ago
  Not that I disagree, but I think it's more than that: the US have started a trend of "boycott the US" across those who used to consider them as allies after... you know the US government not only embraced fascism but also started threatening to invade said ex allies and destabilising Europe. Pretty sure that there is a similar trend in Canada or Mexico, for instance.
CodeCompost 2y ago
[flagged]
- alchemist1e9 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - CodeCompost 2y ago
    [flagged]
rc_mob 2y ago
America under Trump is the least free that America has ever been. Your freedom argument is outdated, The USA has a fascism problem right now and we are trying to fight it.
- sepositus 2y ago
  Are you from the US?
9283409232 2y ago
> Can you explain why? From privacy and free speech perspectives aren’t US services now better? In regards to privacy, the country is increasingly trying to pass age verification bills as a way to backdoor more surveillance into law while a billionaire is running around slurping up everyone's private data. In regards to free speech, the President sues journalist he doesn't agree with, passed an executive order to target lawyers he doesn't like, and is trying to get a law passed that will allow him to further target people who try to hold him accountable. To say the US is better on both privacy and free speech is either uninformed or delusional.
- palata 2y ago
  I wonder if companies will try to move away from services like Google Suite or Microsoft Teams or Slack. Because it essentially means that the US can read all the internal communications. That's a big security problem, especially now that the US have become... unstable.
  - timbit42 2y ago
    Absolutely. While I haven't heard of it happening yet, I have seen talks about doing so.
EasyMark 2y ago
I can understand their position. USA appears to be leaving NATO and promoting Russia's interests (through both pulling back from treaties and allies, and embracing Russian style diplomacy and oligarchical government), it's pretty easy to see why Europeans would get squirmy about American companies.
jeroenhd 2y ago
I'm considering cutting out American services as well. The US is starting trade wars left, right, and center, and the current government has barely gotten started. With the white house siding with the Russians, threatening war against Canada and Denmark, and the whole NATO situation, I think it'll be foolish of me to depend on American services. For all I know, our countries may well be at war by the end of the year. As for privacy: American privacy laws are even more of a joke than the GDPR. The lack of privacy rights for non-American citizens is the main reason the GDPR bans storing PII in the US. As for free speech: the kind of free speech American tech companies are offering right now is not something I'm very interested in. America ranking lower than my country in every freedom index I can find also doesn't help. Furthermore, paying a browser that actively does business with Yandex doesn't sit well with me, even if it won't affect me directly. The comments the CEO made about not caring about "geopolitics" doesn't reassure me much, either.

upcoming-sesame 2y ago

Because the recent trade war has started a trend of "buy European' across the continent buy-european-made.eu

alchemist1e9 2y ago
Before these trade war escalations the US imposed an average tariff rate of about 3.5% on EU goods, notably lower than the EU’s 5.2% on US goods, and lacked the high, sector-specific tariffs seen in the EU. While the US maintained a relatively uniform rate, 2.5% on cars and slightly higher on food and chemicals—the EU targeted certain US sectors with very steep tariffs, like 32.3% on dairy. We should also mention VAT. The EU’s 21% VAT jacks up prices, a €100 item hitting €121 will slash demand. This provided around €1 trillion revenue for EU governments in 2024. While the US’s typical 7% sales tax keeps a $100 item at $107, hurting demand less, total about $457 billion in 2024. This gap makes US goods pricier in the EU (27.7% markup with tariffs) versus EU goods in the US (10.8% markup), acting like an extra trade wall for American exports, while the EU’s VAT refund on exports gives their firms a edge. Notice we haven’t even mentioned defense spending yet …
- Phelinofist 2y ago
  Do you understand that stuff made in Europe and sold in Europe is also subject to the VAT?
  - berdario 2y ago
    it seems he also overlooked, in his tirade against EU VAT, that almost the whole world has VAT. It's just an handful of countries like USA and Malaysia that are the weird ones, and don't implement a VAT tax
    - 9283409232 2y ago
      VAT is a reductive tax that taxes the poor instead of the rich. Coincidentally, Trump supports adding VAT to the US.
      - Pooge 2y ago
        Please call me out if I'm just being delusional but I think VAT is a great way to tax rich people. They already have a lot of ways to avoid taxes, but at least with VAT they pay the same as everybody else. They are going to buy expensive food or drinks at restaurants and 8% (in my country) of that is going to be taxed. Someone more modest is going to eat at a less expensive place and is going to pay 8% on something less expensive. I'm aware of the luxury tax but I don't think it's better than the VAT tax.
        9283409232 2y ago
        For people in poverty, 8% is the difference between getting that extra carton of eggs or not getting it. For rich people, it doesn't matter. It's not that VAT doesn't tax rich people it's that it taxes poor people a lot harder.
        Pooge 2y ago
        I completely get your point. What would you suggest, then?
        9283409232 2y ago
        A wealth tax, an estate tax, a tax on stock trades are all better options that hit the wealthy and not the poor.
- wasabi991011 2y ago
  I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that the EU isn't being "fair" to the US? I'm not sure how that would change the incentive for European citizens to rely more on European products in the face of possible future tariffs.
- Hikikomori 2y ago
  Clown in charge is more than enough reason to divest from US.
palata 2y ago
Not that I disagree, but I think it's more than that: the US have started a trend of "boycott the US" across those who used to consider them as allies after... you know the US government not only embraced fascism but also started threatening to invade said ex allies and destabilising Europe. Pretty sure that there is a similar trend in Canada or Mexico, for instance.

CodeCompost 2y ago

[flagged]

alchemist1e9 2y ago
[flagged]
- CodeCompost 2y ago
  [flagged]

rc_mob 2y ago

America under Trump is the least free that America has ever been. Your freedom argument is outdated, The USA has a fascism problem right now and we are trying to fight it.

sepositus 2y ago
Are you from the US?

9283409232 2y ago

> Can you explain why? From privacy and free speech perspectives aren’t US services now better? In regards to privacy, the country is increasingly trying to pass age verification bills as a way to backdoor more surveillance into law while a billionaire is running around slurping up everyone's private data. In regards to free speech, the President sues journalist he doesn't agree with, passed an executive order to target lawyers he doesn't like, and is trying to get a law passed that will allow him to further target people who try to hold him accountable. To say the US is better on both privacy and free speech is either uninformed or delusional.

palata 2y ago
I wonder if companies will try to move away from services like Google Suite or Microsoft Teams or Slack. Because it essentially means that the US can read all the internal communications. That's a big security problem, especially now that the US have become... unstable.
- timbit42 2y ago
  Absolutely. While I haven't heard of it happening yet, I have seen talks about doing so.

EasyMark 2y ago

I can understand their position. USA appears to be leaving NATO and promoting Russia's interests (through both pulling back from treaties and allies, and embracing Russian style diplomacy and oligarchical government), it's pretty easy to see why Europeans would get squirmy about American companies.

jeroenhd 2y ago

I'm considering cutting out American services as well. The US is starting trade wars left, right, and center, and the current government has barely gotten started. With the white house siding with the Russians, threatening war against Canada and Denmark, and the whole NATO situation, I think it'll be foolish of me to depend on American services. For all I know, our countries may well be at war by the end of the year. As for privacy: American privacy laws are even more of a joke than the GDPR. The lack of privacy rights for non-American citizens is the main reason the GDPR bans storing PII in the US. As for free speech: the kind of free speech American tech companies are offering right now is not something I'm very interested in. America ranking lower than my country in every freedom index I can find also doesn't help. Furthermore, paying a browser that actively does business with Yandex doesn't sit well with me, even if it won't affect me directly. The comments the CEO made about not caring about "geopolitics" doesn't reassure me much, either.