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Can Google just "donate" Chrome to a foundation like a lot of big companies do to deal with this? Maybe we'll soon have Apache Chrome!

by re-thc 2y ago

drivingmenuts 2y ago
Apache is where projects go to slowly die.
- johnisgood 2y ago
  Or Oracle. :D
- ekianjo 2y ago
  Really? Airflow, Arrow, Iceberg, Kafka are dying projects?
- jherdman 2y ago
  Is this really true? Something that can be supported by clear evidence? I’ve seen this trotted out many times, but it seems like there are interesting Apache projects: https://airflow.apache.org/ https://airflow.apache.org/ https://iceberg.apache.org/ https://iceberg.apache.org/ https://kafka.apache.org/ https://kafka.apache.org/ https://superset.apache.org/ https://superset.apache.org/
  - fc417fc802 2y ago
    It's superficially true of any large stewardship organization. After N years some significant percent of projects will be on their way out. These will continue accumulating year over year and they potentially won't be disposed of for decades (and for good reason). Meanwhile only a vanishingly small fraction of projects remains at the center of public attention for an extended period of time. People develop a skewed perspective because we interact with many of the most popular projects on a daily basis.
  - rany_ 2y ago
    https://openoffice.apache.org/ https://openoffice.apache.org/ is the context in which I've seen this saying get regurgitated the most.
    - tslocum 2y ago
      I wrote about the situation with Apache Open Office here: https://rocket9labs.com/post/its-time-to-let-go-apache-software-foundation/ https://rocket9labs.com/post/its-time-to-let-go-apache-softw...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
crop_rotation 2y ago
There is no foundation with the budget to even maintain a web browser, let alone keep developing. If Google is not footing the bill then Safari will become the torch bearer, and Apple has no incentive to make Safari become more capable to threaten that sweet IAP revenue.
- rchaud 2y ago
  Have there been meaningful changes to the browser spec since ES2015 support was baked in? Chrome, Safari etc. are not developing their browsers for the betterment of the web. One company wants to shove ads in your face, the other wants you out of the web entirely and into their walled garden of apps and ads. From a security standpoint, I'm sure it's more complicated, but UBO and warning dialog boxes about downloading files to your device, logging into services without 2FA would probably solve a lot of those problems. Does a billion dollar corp have to be involved considering how much has gone into Linux from people's pro bono efforts?
  - crop_rotation 2y ago
    Linux kernel gets so so much of corporate support, and is still a much more smaller project than any web browser. People's pro bono efforts stopped being enough for linux about 2 decades ago at the very least.
  - bpicolo 2y ago
    Do you all forget the web pre chrome? Google and Chrome forced browser vendors to do better by standards in the first place. Google’s stewardship forced browser vendors to compete like never before.
    - rchaud 2y ago
      I don't remember Google doing that. What I remember from that time is a browser war happening between the power players in mobile with iOS, Android and Windows Phone. I would attribute the improvement in browser standards support to the finalization of the HTML5 spec by the W3C in 2009, which led to browser vendors harmonizing their feature set. We still needed jQuery to ensure cross-browser support, and floats and polyfills to get sites to work on mobile. That ended when browsers harmonized ES2015 support and built in support for flexbox and grid.
rollcat 2y ago
Like what Mozilla was supposed to be doing all along?

Can Google just "donate" Chrome to a foundation like a lot of big companies do to deal with this? Maybe we'll soon have Apache Chrome!

by re-thc 2y ago

Can Google just "donate" Chrome to a foundation like a lot of big companies do to deal with this? Maybe we'll soon have Apache Chrome!

drivingmenuts 2y ago

Apache is where projects go to slowly die.

johnisgood 2y ago
Or Oracle. :D
ekianjo 2y ago
Really? Airflow, Arrow, Iceberg, Kafka are dying projects?
jherdman 2y ago
Is this really true? Something that can be supported by clear evidence? I’ve seen this trotted out many times, but it seems like there are interesting Apache projects: https://airflow.apache.org/ https://airflow.apache.org/ https://iceberg.apache.org/ https://iceberg.apache.org/ https://kafka.apache.org/ https://kafka.apache.org/ https://superset.apache.org/ https://superset.apache.org/
- fc417fc802 2y ago
  It's superficially true of any large stewardship organization. After N years some significant percent of projects will be on their way out. These will continue accumulating year over year and they potentially won't be disposed of for decades (and for good reason). Meanwhile only a vanishingly small fraction of projects remains at the center of public attention for an extended period of time. People develop a skewed perspective because we interact with many of the most popular projects on a daily basis.
- rany_ 2y ago
  https://openoffice.apache.org/ https://openoffice.apache.org/ is the context in which I've seen this saying get regurgitated the most.
  - tslocum 2y ago
    I wrote about the situation with Apache Open Office here: https://rocket9labs.com/post/its-time-to-let-go-apache-software-foundation/ https://rocket9labs.com/post/its-time-to-let-go-apache-softw...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

crop_rotation 2y ago

There is no foundation with the budget to even maintain a web browser, let alone keep developing. If Google is not footing the bill then Safari will become the torch bearer, and Apple has no incentive to make Safari become more capable to threaten that sweet IAP revenue.

rchaud 2y ago
Have there been meaningful changes to the browser spec since ES2015 support was baked in? Chrome, Safari etc. are not developing their browsers for the betterment of the web. One company wants to shove ads in your face, the other wants you out of the web entirely and into their walled garden of apps and ads. From a security standpoint, I'm sure it's more complicated, but UBO and warning dialog boxes about downloading files to your device, logging into services without 2FA would probably solve a lot of those problems. Does a billion dollar corp have to be involved considering how much has gone into Linux from people's pro bono efforts?
- crop_rotation 2y ago
  Linux kernel gets so so much of corporate support, and is still a much more smaller project than any web browser. People's pro bono efforts stopped being enough for linux about 2 decades ago at the very least.
- bpicolo 2y ago
  Do you all forget the web pre chrome? Google and Chrome forced browser vendors to do better by standards in the first place. Google’s stewardship forced browser vendors to compete like never before.
  - rchaud 2y ago
    I don't remember Google doing that. What I remember from that time is a browser war happening between the power players in mobile with iOS, Android and Windows Phone. I would attribute the improvement in browser standards support to the finalization of the HTML5 spec by the W3C in 2009, which led to browser vendors harmonizing their feature set. We still needed jQuery to ensure cross-browser support, and floats and polyfills to get sites to work on mobile. That ended when browsers harmonized ES2015 support and built in support for flexbox and grid.

rollcat 2y ago

Like what Mozilla was supposed to be doing all along?