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I’m not making any judgement on this particular event but your rigid way of thinking that because it’s a crime it’s wrong is, well, too rigid. If I was a citiz

I’m not making any judgement on this particular event but your rigid way of thinking that because it’s a crime it’s wrong is, well, too rigid. If I was a citizen of North Korea and I assassinated the great leader technically speaking I just committed a crime too. You see the nuance here? Maybe you think because the laws are American and Americans can do no wrong. Extraordinary rendition was completely legal and a thousand times worse than what this guy did. 10 years for this, 0 years for torture. I want to hear his side of the story. How did they fuck him over after he gave them years of work.

setnone 2y ago
I'm not judging either but what's the opposite of too rigid?
- ninetyninenine 2y ago
  You don’t want to be the opposite either. Too loose means too forgiving nothing is wrong.
jmyeet 2y ago
And what evil was Eaton Corporation performing? No, seriously. Put your hyperbolic examples aside that clearly don't fit the facts. And let's say the company was evil in some way. Well, the defendant was happy to keep working for them (12 years in this case) and only started sabotating when he was demoted. So there's not a shred of a moral stand here. It's just pure self-interest, which is fine. But if you go the route of sabotage, don't be surprised if you end up jail. Is that worth it? The answer is no. I'm reminded of a really old Simpsons quote [1]. Alternatively, you just hoard information and make yourself impossible to fire. This article is non-specific about the charge but this article [2] says the charge carries a maximum 10 year sentence, which means it's a felony. So for the rest of his life, he'll be a convicted felon regardless of how much (if any) prison time he gets. That has consequences. It's also strange he went to trial at all. The conviction rate in Federal court is roughly 99%. Most Federal criminal cases plead out. I'd love to know what, if any, plea deal was offered, if he represented himself (pro se) and, if he didn't, how much it cost him. It has to be tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees. You see what I mean when I say, it's just not worth it? "What if it was a moral crusade?" you might ask. It wasn't. That's the point. That's why it's not worth it. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmtxUiGYrB0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmtxUiGYrB0 [2]: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/former-eaton-corp-employee-found-guilty-of-sabotaging-company-s-computer-systems/ar-AA1Au8eF https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/former-eaton-corp-...
- ninetyninenine 2y ago
  I don’t know what evil was done by the corporation. I’m not making any judgement. I need to hear the employees side of the story which wasn’t given here.
  - jmyeet 2y ago
    If any evil was done, why wasn't it raised as a defense at trial? We just had one. He was found guilty. The defense was actually "it wasn't me" with a bad cover up and his account was linked to the malware. I don't understand this weird obsession with being contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian or to raise hyperbolic examples that don't fit the facts. Sometimes, even most of the time, things are just what they appear to be. In this case: likely a shitty employer and a shitty job. He then compounded his error by going to trial (Federal criminal cases have a 98-99% conviction rate at trial), paying possibly $100k in legal fees, going to prison for possibly years and being a convicted felon for the rest of his life with all that entails (loss of rights, more difficult to find work, lower earning potential, difficulty in getting visas, more difficult to rent and so on). And for what? What's probably just a mild inconvenience for the company for a day or two. WAs it worth it?
    - ninetyninenine 2y ago
      > If any evil was done, why wasn't it raised as a defense at trial? Because the evil likely wasn’t illegal. > I don't understand this weird obsession with being contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian or to raise hyperbolic examples that don't fit the facts. False. No one is contrarian here for the sake of it you and I have a different opinion. That’s all you think someone with a different opinion than you is contrarian? > And for what? What's probably just a mild inconvenience for the company for a day or two. WAs it worth it? Fuck no it wasn’t worth it. That’s what I mean. It’s a “crime” but was it a crime worth 10 years? No. If you weigh the situation based on gravity the greater evil was done to him. That’s part of the whole thing about a crime isn’t the end all be all of evil. Just because it’s a crime doesn’t mean anything. > Sometimes, even most of the time, things are just what they appear to be. In this case: likely a shitty employer and a shitty job. Appear to be what? They have no quotations or anything about him stating why he did what he did? Because the information is missing you are making a wild guess. I don’t know how you can make a claim out of thin air that things are often what they appear to be EVEN when you literally were not given his side of the story. In any typical investigation motive is a huge part of the analysis and we don’t have motive. I bet the prosecutor was like you. Just destroy a mans life because he “broke the law” or did a “crime.” If a child stole food because he was hungry would you send him to juvie because it’s a crime? Let’s be real here. If I had to venture any guess about why he’s going to jail for 10 years a huge part of it is that someone fucking hates him.

setnone 2y ago

I'm not judging either but what's the opposite of too rigid?

ninetyninenine 2y ago
You don’t want to be the opposite either. Too loose means too forgiving nothing is wrong.

jmyeet 2y ago

And what evil was Eaton Corporation performing? No, seriously. Put your hyperbolic examples aside that clearly don't fit the facts. And let's say the company was evil in some way. Well, the defendant was happy to keep working for them (12 years in this case) and only started sabotating when he was demoted. So there's not a shred of a moral stand here. It's just pure self-interest, which is fine. But if you go the route of sabotage, don't be surprised if you end up jail. Is that worth it? The answer is no. I'm reminded of a really old Simpsons quote [1]. Alternatively, you just hoard information and make yourself impossible to fire. This article is non-specific about the charge but this article [2] says the charge carries a maximum 10 year sentence, which means it's a felony. So for the rest of his life, he'll be a convicted felon regardless of how much (if any) prison time he gets. That has consequences. It's also strange he went to trial at all. The conviction rate in Federal court is roughly 99%. Most Federal criminal cases plead out. I'd love to know what, if any, plea deal was offered, if he represented himself (pro se) and, if he didn't, how much it cost him. It has to be tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees. You see what I mean when I say, it's just not worth it? "What if it was a moral crusade?" you might ask. It wasn't. That's the point. That's why it's not worth it. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmtxUiGYrB0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmtxUiGYrB0 [2]: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/former-eaton-corp-employee-found-guilty-of-sabotaging-company-s-computer-systems/ar-AA1Au8eF https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/former-eaton-corp-...

ninetyninenine 2y ago
I don’t know what evil was done by the corporation. I’m not making any judgement. I need to hear the employees side of the story which wasn’t given here.
- jmyeet 2y ago
  If any evil was done, why wasn't it raised as a defense at trial? We just had one. He was found guilty. The defense was actually "it wasn't me" with a bad cover up and his account was linked to the malware. I don't understand this weird obsession with being contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian or to raise hyperbolic examples that don't fit the facts. Sometimes, even most of the time, things are just what they appear to be. In this case: likely a shitty employer and a shitty job. He then compounded his error by going to trial (Federal criminal cases have a 98-99% conviction rate at trial), paying possibly $100k in legal fees, going to prison for possibly years and being a convicted felon for the rest of his life with all that entails (loss of rights, more difficult to find work, lower earning potential, difficulty in getting visas, more difficult to rent and so on). And for what? What's probably just a mild inconvenience for the company for a day or two. WAs it worth it?
  - ninetyninenine 2y ago
    > If any evil was done, why wasn't it raised as a defense at trial? Because the evil likely wasn’t illegal. > I don't understand this weird obsession with being contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian or to raise hyperbolic examples that don't fit the facts. False. No one is contrarian here for the sake of it you and I have a different opinion. That’s all you think someone with a different opinion than you is contrarian? > And for what? What's probably just a mild inconvenience for the company for a day or two. WAs it worth it? Fuck no it wasn’t worth it. That’s what I mean. It’s a “crime” but was it a crime worth 10 years? No. If you weigh the situation based on gravity the greater evil was done to him. That’s part of the whole thing about a crime isn’t the end all be all of evil. Just because it’s a crime doesn’t mean anything. > Sometimes, even most of the time, things are just what they appear to be. In this case: likely a shitty employer and a shitty job. Appear to be what? They have no quotations or anything about him stating why he did what he did? Because the information is missing you are making a wild guess. I don’t know how you can make a claim out of thin air that things are often what they appear to be EVEN when you literally were not given his side of the story. In any typical investigation motive is a huge part of the analysis and we don’t have motive. I bet the prosecutor was like you. Just destroy a mans life because he “broke the law” or did a “crime.” If a child stole food because he was hungry would you send him to juvie because it’s a crime? Let’s be real here. If I had to venture any guess about why he’s going to jail for 10 years a huge part of it is that someone fucking hates him.