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What I'm saying is that the very best engineers are at a higher level with 5 YOE than 99% of engineers are ever capable of reaching. e.g. Linus Torvalds was 21

What I'm saying is that the very best engineers are at a higher level with 5 YOE than 99% of engineers are ever capable of reaching. e.g. Linus Torvalds was 21 when the first version of Linux was released. I couldn't come close to that now with 10 YOE.

Alupis 2y ago
I fundamentally disagree. I regularly interface with people that have more than 5 years and are entirely unequipped to code their way out of a paper bag, let alone work unsupervised, lead a team, understand the overall system that's being designed, and more. They have little knowledge outside whatever pet language they've sunk all of their time into, and even then, little knowledge outside of a narrow set of tools/practices. That's not "Senior". That's someone getting their feet wet in an ever-changing industry that requires a certain level of thirst for knowledge and continued learning. There's always exceptions - and some people are stellar in every way. But on average, 5 years of experience is still training wheels for a great deal of people. > Linus Torvalds was 21 when the first version of Linux was released. This is like pointing to Bill Gates or Michael Jordan and saying everyone can do that... Linus is the fabled 10X Rockstar of programming.
- fallingknife 2y ago
  You have moved the goalposts from > I'd argue without compromise someone with less than 5 years of experience cannot possibly be Senior-anything To: > There's always exceptions - and some people are stellar in every way. But on average, 5 years of experience is still training wheels for a great deal of people So we are in agreement.
ofrzeta 2y ago
Being senior arguably involves more than technical skill on a one-dimensional scale. I'd say Linus Torvalds was no senior at that time although the technical feat was certainly impressive.
cratermoon 2y ago
Am I understanding you correctly? You're saying because 1% of engineers are as good at 5 years as most engineers will ever be, that 5 years is a reasonable gauge for "senior"?

Alupis 2y ago

I fundamentally disagree. I regularly interface with people that have more than 5 years and are entirely unequipped to code their way out of a paper bag, let alone work unsupervised, lead a team, understand the overall system that's being designed, and more. They have little knowledge outside whatever pet language they've sunk all of their time into, and even then, little knowledge outside of a narrow set of tools/practices. That's not "Senior". That's someone getting their feet wet in an ever-changing industry that requires a certain level of thirst for knowledge and continued learning. There's always exceptions - and some people are stellar in every way. But on average, 5 years of experience is still training wheels for a great deal of people. > Linus Torvalds was 21 when the first version of Linux was released. This is like pointing to Bill Gates or Michael Jordan and saying everyone can do that... Linus is the fabled 10X Rockstar of programming.

fallingknife 2y ago
You have moved the goalposts from > I'd argue without compromise someone with less than 5 years of experience cannot possibly be Senior-anything To: > There's always exceptions - and some people are stellar in every way. But on average, 5 years of experience is still training wheels for a great deal of people So we are in agreement.

ofrzeta 2y ago

Being senior arguably involves more than technical skill on a one-dimensional scale. I'd say Linus Torvalds was no senior at that time although the technical feat was certainly impressive.

cratermoon 2y ago

Am I understanding you correctly? You're saying because 1% of engineers are as good at 5 years as most engineers will ever be, that 5 years is a reasonable gauge for "senior"?