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Starship Troopers is the darling du jour online for this phenomenon. A movie lampooning militarism, xenophobia and… armoured supersoldiers grinding through bug

by mikrl 2y ago

Starship Troopers is the darling du jour online for this phenomenon. A movie lampooning militarism, xenophobia and… armoured supersoldiers grinding through bugs and taking their resources? Sounds cool. Compare to games like Factorio and Helldivers 2. About 1% of the time I think “wait, am I the baddie?” and the rest is just raining down technologically enhanced Armageddon to further my mineral stockpiles.

worik 2y ago
Starship Troupers, the book, was explicitly pro war.
- astrange 2y ago
  The movie is not really based on the book. It's supposedly a parody of it, but the director literally did not read the book, so it's actually a parody of what he assumed it was about. (eg "service guarantees citizenship" is presented as a fascist idea the movie is parodying, but IIRC in the book you could get it by being a mailman.)
  - barrkel 2y ago
    It's less a parody of what the book was about and more a parody of Nazi Germany - and showing what great fun and how exciting war is to the kids.
    - lll-o-lll 2y ago
      It’s a send up and mockery of American culture around their military. It is parody, quite mean parody (as is typical of Verhoeven), and it wasn’t well received at the time (in the US). As an Australian, I laughed heartily, and considered it just deserts for that Simpsons episode. ;-)
      - etc-hosts 2y ago
        The movie is a commentary on the seductiveness of Fascism. Verhoeven is something of an expert on this, since he grew up in The Hague during Nazi occupation. There's an interview out there where he says when he making the film he was wondering if his movie was in-your-face enough about Nazis, to really make sure his movie wasn't too subtle or that people would miss the point he had the former Doogie Howser actor wear a SS officer's trenchcoat.
        euroderf 2y ago
        If only he had embedded a short parody of Triumph of the Will, a decidedly seductive film IMO (YMMV).
  - crooked-v 2y ago
    > but IIRC in the book you could get it by being a mailman No, it's explicitly noted in the book that the civil service options are supposed to be at least as unpleasant as being a soldier - even if that means inventing useless make-work for someone unable to perform other duties. The explicit example given is that a blind man with only a single functioning limb might be given the duty of counting hairs on caterpillars by touch on a cold moon base for his full tour of service. Of course, that's leaving aside the basic problem that the idea only works in an idealized abstract state where nobody in the basically unaccountable government ever indulges in even a little bit of nepotism when it comes to who gets picked for or promoted out of certain kinds of drudge work.
  - etc-hosts 2y ago
    Whoever wrote the screenplay or script for the movie definitely read the book. Several Starship Troopers movie scenes are lifted directly from the book, almost word for word.
    - astrange 2y ago
      The scriptwriter did. I think the director had him write chapter outlines of it.
- funny_falcon 2y ago
  I believe, it was pro-military, but not pro-war. The book idealizes the state and social system, and uses war only as a backdrop.
- sbochins 2y ago
  It was actually pro-facism. This isn’t the first time a movie was based on a book, where the movie was a dark comedy, by simply representing the argument in the book. Similar thing happened with Dr Strangelove, which was based on some crummy Cold War book.
ReptileMan 2y ago
I really hate Verhoeven about what he did to the book.
- croes 2y ago
  But the movie is still good
- rurban 2y ago
  I really love what Verhoeven did to the book. A timeless masterpiece
dmoy 2y ago
> Compare to games like Factorio and Helldivers 2. About 1% of the time I think “wait, am I the baddie? I was really confused there for a second, before I remembered that there are native bug monsters in Factorio. I always play with the monsters disabled so the planet is empty.
qmmmur 2y ago
It is 100% critiquing all of the a above? How have media studies failed this badly...
- simpaticoder 2y ago
  A thing can be meant as one thing and taken as another. Warhammer 40k is one of those things. Any fantasy historical show is also an example. We are attracted to illiberal settings and situations; which makes sense since much of human civilization was ordered as such (and wiped out the rest the first chance it got). Liberalism requires a great deal of self-restraint, because illiberalism seems to be the psychological default.
  - toyg 2y ago
    > illiberalism seems to be the psychological default Because apes are not liberal, of course.
    - 9dev 2y ago
      They are not. An ape is always part of a tribe and has a role to play. Not even the alpha animals are secure, since they need to defend their position; females will, if a conquering tribe takes over, be raped by the winning males. What exactly would you call liberal about that?
    - mikrl 2y ago
      Neither was Hobbes, but the ‘nasty, brutish and short’[1] state of nature is not something we should aspire to. Ironically, the chaos of liberal democracy might be the greatest stabilizing force our species has ever known. Even the Pax Romana the ancient Chinese bureaucracy, and the European empires fell apart for one reason or another. Let’s hope liberal democracy has many more miles left in the tank. [1] https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nasty-brutish-and-short.html https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nasty-brutish-and-short....
ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
Democracy is non-negotiable

by mikrl 2y ago

worik 2y ago

Starship Troupers, the book, was explicitly pro war.

astrange 2y ago
The movie is not really based on the book. It's supposedly a parody of it, but the director literally did not read the book, so it's actually a parody of what he assumed it was about. (eg "service guarantees citizenship" is presented as a fascist idea the movie is parodying, but IIRC in the book you could get it by being a mailman.)
- barrkel 2y ago
  It's less a parody of what the book was about and more a parody of Nazi Germany - and showing what great fun and how exciting war is to the kids.
  - lll-o-lll 2y ago
    It’s a send up and mockery of American culture around their military. It is parody, quite mean parody (as is typical of Verhoeven), and it wasn’t well received at the time (in the US). As an Australian, I laughed heartily, and considered it just deserts for that Simpsons episode. ;-)
    - etc-hosts 2y ago
      The movie is a commentary on the seductiveness of Fascism. Verhoeven is something of an expert on this, since he grew up in The Hague during Nazi occupation. There's an interview out there where he says when he making the film he was wondering if his movie was in-your-face enough about Nazis, to really make sure his movie wasn't too subtle or that people would miss the point he had the former Doogie Howser actor wear a SS officer's trenchcoat.
      - euroderf 2y ago
        If only he had embedded a short parody of Triumph of the Will, a decidedly seductive film IMO (YMMV).
- crooked-v 2y ago
  > but IIRC in the book you could get it by being a mailman No, it's explicitly noted in the book that the civil service options are supposed to be at least as unpleasant as being a soldier - even if that means inventing useless make-work for someone unable to perform other duties. The explicit example given is that a blind man with only a single functioning limb might be given the duty of counting hairs on caterpillars by touch on a cold moon base for his full tour of service. Of course, that's leaving aside the basic problem that the idea only works in an idealized abstract state where nobody in the basically unaccountable government ever indulges in even a little bit of nepotism when it comes to who gets picked for or promoted out of certain kinds of drudge work.
- etc-hosts 2y ago
  Whoever wrote the screenplay or script for the movie definitely read the book. Several Starship Troopers movie scenes are lifted directly from the book, almost word for word.
  - astrange 2y ago
    The scriptwriter did. I think the director had him write chapter outlines of it.
funny_falcon 2y ago
I believe, it was pro-military, but not pro-war. The book idealizes the state and social system, and uses war only as a backdrop.
sbochins 2y ago
It was actually pro-facism. This isn’t the first time a movie was based on a book, where the movie was a dark comedy, by simply representing the argument in the book. Similar thing happened with Dr Strangelove, which was based on some crummy Cold War book.

ReptileMan 2y ago

I really hate Verhoeven about what he did to the book.

croes 2y ago
But the movie is still good
rurban 2y ago
I really love what Verhoeven did to the book. A timeless masterpiece

dmoy 2y ago

> Compare to games like Factorio and Helldivers 2. About 1% of the time I think “wait, am I the baddie? I was really confused there for a second, before I remembered that there are native bug monsters in Factorio. I always play with the monsters disabled so the planet is empty.

qmmmur 2y ago

It is 100% critiquing all of the a above? How have media studies failed this badly...

simpaticoder 2y ago
A thing can be meant as one thing and taken as another. Warhammer 40k is one of those things. Any fantasy historical show is also an example. We are attracted to illiberal settings and situations; which makes sense since much of human civilization was ordered as such (and wiped out the rest the first chance it got). Liberalism requires a great deal of self-restraint, because illiberalism seems to be the psychological default.
- toyg 2y ago
  > illiberalism seems to be the psychological default Because apes are not liberal, of course.
  - 9dev 2y ago
    They are not. An ape is always part of a tribe and has a role to play. Not even the alpha animals are secure, since they need to defend their position; females will, if a conquering tribe takes over, be raped by the winning males. What exactly would you call liberal about that?
  - mikrl 2y ago
    Neither was Hobbes, but the ‘nasty, brutish and short’[1] state of nature is not something we should aspire to. Ironically, the chaos of liberal democracy might be the greatest stabilizing force our species has ever known. Even the Pax Romana the ancient Chinese bureaucracy, and the European empires fell apart for one reason or another. Let’s hope liberal democracy has many more miles left in the tank. [1] https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nasty-brutish-and-short.html https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nasty-brutish-and-short....

ThrowawayTestr 2y ago

Democracy is non-negotiable