4 ms·

The order of adjectives in English is usually: opinion, size, age or shape, colour, origin, material, purpose It is sometimes difficult to classify adjectives

The order of adjectives in English is usually: opinion, size, age or shape, colour, origin, material, purpose It is sometimes difficult to classify adjectives this way, but "private" is probably opinion and "robotic" is probably purpose, so you are correct, "private robotic spacecraft" is probably correct. The problem with English, of course, is that you can figure out what someone means, even if they jumble all their words up, most of the time. I wonder if the standard of English composition has been reducing in journalism, over the past few years.

bombcar 2y ago
Private large old round blue American metallic robotic spaceship. Sounds a bit wrong, I want to put American first.
- asah 2y ago
  That's your American opinion !! :-)
- adriand 2y ago
  > Sounds a bit wrong, I want to put American first. That would require labelling the spacecraft transgender, then cutting its budget.
- bawolff 2y ago
  Otoh, if you cut out some - "old american spaceship" sounds fine to me, where "american old spaceship" does not (or it makes it sound like "american old" is a brand name)
  - bombcar 2y ago
    Part of it might be that the age is changing, but the "American" isn't. I don't know. It's weird that there's obviously some kind of ruleset here, but it's difficult to nail it down.
QuercusMax 2y ago
I think private is an origin, not an opinion.
tzs 2y ago
I'm curious how that would apply in this case Imagine a restaurant that sells french fries. They offer two kinds of fries, one with physically large fries (like steak fries) and the other with physically small fries (like shoestring fries). They call these "large" fries and "small" fries. You can order a large quantity of fries or a small quantity of fries, giving 4 possible orders: large large fries, large small fries, small large fries, and small small fries. If an order of large small fries asking for a large quantity of the shoestring fries or a small quantity of the steak fries? I think I'd expect it to mean a large quantity of the shoestring fries.
- helsinkiandrew 2y ago
  The quantity (large or small) isn’t an adjective it’s a determiner (like John’s, my, the restaurants, a plate of) so comes before.
- LeoPanthera 2y ago
  Regardless of the “rules” of English, or any other language, clarity comes first. So you’d probably find different adjectives, or possibly even invent new ones. Perhaps something like “jumbo fries” or “mini fries” or something more creative.
- losvedir 2y ago
  As a native English speaker, "I'll have a large small fries" pretty clearly means a large quantity of small type fries to me. It's the kind of thing you'd say sort of jokingly, but I don't think anyone would really struggle with understanding it.
vpribish 2y ago
This is fun : Private is origin. Robotic is material
thaumasiotes 2y ago
CGEL gives this order: Evaluative > general property > age > color > provenance > manufacture > type [There's plenty of elaboration on what kinds of descriptors fit into each category. For example, artisanally handcrafted goes in the "manufacture" category, and the label "manufacture" makes sense for it, but the label "material" doesn't.] CGEL also correctly notes that this order only applies when all descriptors are being coordinated in parallel; if that isn't the case, the innermost descriptors must appear on the right, joining the head of the phrase. > In the absence of special factors, a modifier of size precedes one of colour: a large black sofa represents the preferred order while a black large sofa is very unnatural. But this constraint can be overridden, as in [ii]: the context here is one where it has already been established that I want a large sofa, so that now only the colour is at issue. Black is thus interpreted restrictively, picking out a subset of the large sofas, and in this context in can precede large. > while a new cotton shirt, say, is normally preferred over a cotton new shirt, the latter is not ungrammatical. It is admissible, for example, in a context where there has been talk of new shirts, and the concern is with different kinds of new shirt. [Returning to that earlier example, you'd always expect an artisanally handcrafted Belgian waffle and not a Belgian artisanally handcrafted waffle because "Belgian waffle" is its own idea. "Belgian" and "handcrafted" are not parallel; this is a Belgian waffle that is handcrafted, not a waffle that is handcrafted and also Belgian.] I was surprised to learn that ESL classes emphasize descriptor order so heavily. It is a real rule of fluent English usage. But the only thing that can happen if you get it wrong is that other people notice you're foreign, so in almost all cases learning the ordering has zero value to the student. Almost all students are obviously foreign by many, many different tells, and aren't hoping to pass for native.
- ziddoap 2y ago
  >CGEL Is probably either Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language from 1985 or The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language from 2002. I have no idea which.
  - thaumasiotes 2y ago
    Cambridge. The abbreviation is conventional. Does it matter to you?

bombcar 2y ago

Private large old round blue American metallic robotic spaceship. Sounds a bit wrong, I want to put American first.

asah 2y ago
That's your American opinion !! :-)
adriand 2y ago
> Sounds a bit wrong, I want to put American first. That would require labelling the spacecraft transgender, then cutting its budget.
bawolff 2y ago
Otoh, if you cut out some - "old american spaceship" sounds fine to me, where "american old spaceship" does not (or it makes it sound like "american old" is a brand name)
- bombcar 2y ago
  Part of it might be that the age is changing, but the "American" isn't. I don't know. It's weird that there's obviously some kind of ruleset here, but it's difficult to nail it down.

QuercusMax 2y ago

I think private is an origin, not an opinion.

tzs 2y ago

I'm curious how that would apply in this case Imagine a restaurant that sells french fries. They offer two kinds of fries, one with physically large fries (like steak fries) and the other with physically small fries (like shoestring fries). They call these "large" fries and "small" fries. You can order a large quantity of fries or a small quantity of fries, giving 4 possible orders: large large fries, large small fries, small large fries, and small small fries. If an order of large small fries asking for a large quantity of the shoestring fries or a small quantity of the steak fries? I think I'd expect it to mean a large quantity of the shoestring fries.

helsinkiandrew 2y ago
The quantity (large or small) isn’t an adjective it’s a determiner (like John’s, my, the restaurants, a plate of) so comes before.
LeoPanthera 2y ago
Regardless of the “rules” of English, or any other language, clarity comes first. So you’d probably find different adjectives, or possibly even invent new ones. Perhaps something like “jumbo fries” or “mini fries” or something more creative.
losvedir 2y ago
As a native English speaker, "I'll have a large small fries" pretty clearly means a large quantity of small type fries to me. It's the kind of thing you'd say sort of jokingly, but I don't think anyone would really struggle with understanding it.

vpribish 2y ago

This is fun : Private is origin. Robotic is material

thaumasiotes 2y ago

CGEL gives this order: Evaluative > general property > age > color > provenance > manufacture > type [There's plenty of elaboration on what kinds of descriptors fit into each category. For example, artisanally handcrafted goes in the "manufacture" category, and the label "manufacture" makes sense for it, but the label "material" doesn't.] CGEL also correctly notes that this order only applies when all descriptors are being coordinated in parallel; if that isn't the case, the innermost descriptors must appear on the right, joining the head of the phrase. > In the absence of special factors, a modifier of size precedes one of colour: a large black sofa represents the preferred order while a black large sofa is very unnatural. But this constraint can be overridden, as in [ii]: the context here is one where it has already been established that I want a large sofa, so that now only the colour is at issue. Black is thus interpreted restrictively, picking out a subset of the large sofas, and in this context in can precede large. > while a new cotton shirt, say, is normally preferred over a cotton new shirt, the latter is not ungrammatical. It is admissible, for example, in a context where there has been talk of new shirts, and the concern is with different kinds of new shirt. [Returning to that earlier example, you'd always expect an artisanally handcrafted Belgian waffle and not a Belgian artisanally handcrafted waffle because "Belgian waffle" is its own idea. "Belgian" and "handcrafted" are not parallel; this is a Belgian waffle that is handcrafted, not a waffle that is handcrafted and also Belgian.] I was surprised to learn that ESL classes emphasize descriptor order so heavily. It is a real rule of fluent English usage. But the only thing that can happen if you get it wrong is that other people notice you're foreign, so in almost all cases learning the ordering has zero value to the student. Almost all students are obviously foreign by many, many different tells, and aren't hoping to pass for native.

ziddoap 2y ago
>CGEL Is probably either Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language from 1985 or The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language from 2002. I have no idea which.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  Cambridge. The abbreviation is conventional. Does it matter to you?