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> For those who, like me, use desktop Linux full time, [...] is a huge win. Well I don't know... For the sake of attracting more users, Linux usage tends to be

> For those who, like me, use desktop Linux full time, [...] is a huge win. Well I don't know... For the sake of attracting more users, Linux usage tends to become more and more Windows-like. Best illustration is the dropping of network transparency in Wayland because "most people don't care". I suspect that there is going to be more and more concessions like this.

cs702 14y ago
bnegreve: X.org-like network transparency falls outside the scope of Wayland, so it was never really dropped as a feature. Moreover, as I understand it, you will be able to run X.org as a Wayland client, so you're not losing anything compared to today's setup. (IOW, you will be able to run remote X11 apps transparently over the network on a Wayland server.) Not only that, but Wayland clients can use any other network protocol -- VNC, RDP, etc. IMO Wayland too is a big win for the Linux desktop.
- bnegreve 14y ago
  > you will be able to run X.org as a Wayland client Not really, application developed over X.org control the display through a drawing API. This is why network transparency (among other things) is so simple. If people start developing application for Wayland this won't be that simple/elegant. We are dropping a level of indirection for performance purpose. This is quite unique in the history.
CJefferson 14y ago
Personally, I prefer VNC to X's network transparency, because all my applications don't get closed if my internet connection drops.
nightpool 14y ago
How do better graphics drivers have anything to do with making concessions to become more Windows-like? Or is it using Linux as a full-time desktop operating system you're objecting to?
- bnegreve 14y ago
  Better graphics are great, but it's hard to believe that nVidia or Valve will release open source software that can be installed/tested/bugrepported through a package manager. This is a big lose for stability and usability. Fetching untested software and installing it manually is very Windows-like.

cs702 14y ago

bnegreve: X.org-like network transparency falls outside the scope of Wayland, so it was never really dropped as a feature. Moreover, as I understand it, you will be able to run X.org as a Wayland client, so you're not losing anything compared to today's setup. (IOW, you will be able to run remote X11 apps transparently over the network on a Wayland server.) Not only that, but Wayland clients can use any other network protocol -- VNC, RDP, etc. IMO Wayland too is a big win for the Linux desktop.

bnegreve 14y ago
> you will be able to run X.org as a Wayland client Not really, application developed over X.org control the display through a drawing API. This is why network transparency (among other things) is so simple. If people start developing application for Wayland this won't be that simple/elegant. We are dropping a level of indirection for performance purpose. This is quite unique in the history.

CJefferson 14y ago

Personally, I prefer VNC to X's network transparency, because all my applications don't get closed if my internet connection drops.

nightpool 14y ago

How do better graphics drivers have anything to do with making concessions to become more Windows-like? Or is it using Linux as a full-time desktop operating system you're objecting to?

bnegreve 14y ago
Better graphics are great, but it's hard to believe that nVidia or Valve will release open source software that can be installed/tested/bugrepported through a package manager. This is a big lose for stability and usability. Fetching untested software and installing it manually is very Windows-like.