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Measles were 95%+ reduced BEFORE the first measles vaccine even came into existance. Explain that? The common hyptothesis is that it was sanitation and/or diet

Measles were 95%+ reduced BEFORE the first measles vaccine even came into existance. Explain that? The common hyptothesis is that it was sanitation and/or diet improvements. So is RFK really crazy or is everyone else crazy?

legitster 2y ago
> Measles were 95%+ reduced BEFORE the first measles vaccine even came into existance. Explain that? Before international travel was a common thing, it was pretty easy to isolate diseases through the use of lazarettos. If we wanted to treat disease like back in the "good old days", we could forcibly quarantine anyone who got off of a plane for a few days.
- watwut 2y ago
  You cant really do that with measles. It is super contagious before symptoms shows up. It is just that if you get it once, you are basically vaccinated for life. There were regular epidemics of measles and that was that.
tfourb 2y ago
Measeles incidence in the years prior to the introduction of the vaccine was not abnormally low. No idea where you got that "95%" number from but it's obviously a lie. Stop providing false information, when you can google the actual facts within seconds. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_vaccine#/media/File:Measles_US_1938-2019.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_vaccine#/media/File:Me... Once the vaccine was introduced, cases fell off a cliff. And yes, RFK is crazy.
- NotGMan 2y ago
  You are misleading everyone: the plot you have is of measles CASES, NOT MORTALITY. The measles mortality reduced by 95% BEFORE vaccination. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Measles_cases_graph.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Measles_...
  - tfourb 2y ago
    >Measles were 95%+ reduced That were your words. Not "Measles mortality was reduced". And you didn't provide a source. So clutch your pearls elsewhere and be clearer about what you mean next time. Yes, mortality was drastically reduced due to a number of factors. But this has very little to do with the question, if children should get vaccinated against measles today. Vaccination is not (always) about the individual that is vaccinated. It is about herd immunity that saves the lives and health of even the people who can't be or aren't vaccinated. The newborn. The immuni-compromized. The freak incident where an immunization doesn't prove effective. etc. It's important for outbreaks to not accelerate rapidly, straining local health systems. If JFK jr thinks that "good nutrition" is in some way a replacement for a comprehensive vaccination campaign and herd immunity, he is nuts and should by kept away from any role in government with a ten foot pole. People are literally dying of a completely preventable disease right now that was judged to be eradicated in the US even a few years ago and you are babbling about "nutrition". Listen to yourself! It's a solved problem and people like JFK jr are literally killing people by undermining the solution.
    - NotGMan 2y ago
      Tell the "it's a solved problem" to people who are vaccine damaged. You only talk about others but ignore the all the people who got vaccine damage. You are selective in your "protect the innocent". Take your N-th booster. There are no "outbreaks" since sanitiation and nutrition improved, so people who aren't completely immunocompromised won't get any serious side effects from it. Why would any parent be stupid enough to risk his own healthy child so that a few immunicomproised people get to live? Makes no sense, no parent is that stupid. Unless you brainwash them that other's children are more important that his own.
      - tfourb 2y ago
        Not sure if you got measles as a child and remember it. I got it and remember it and it's an awful illness. I didn't need any "brainwashing" to vaccinate my children. Making sure that they don't suffer is enough of a reason. Apart from that: I will of course expose my children to a tiny risk if it can safe the live of another person. And you do it every day as well with your own life and with that of your own children, if you have any. It's called a society. It would be much safer for me not to break for a person crossing the road (another car could tailgate me). A pedestrian would maybe leave a dent in my car, but the risk to my life or that of my passengers is negligible. I still break every single time, because it is simply the right thing to do. You make tons of these tradeoffs every single day. >You only talk about others but ignore the all the people who got vaccine damage. Let's start with the worst form of "damage": death. The CDC's website has a total of one documented case, where the vaccine was linked to a death because of a very rare combination of circumstances. One. Total. After Billions of vaccinations. I'll take those chances. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccine-safety/vaccines/mmr.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccine-safety/vaccines/mmr.html Other possible side effects are either a non issue, or completely acceptable (higher risk of seizures in the weeks after vaccination – one of my children has epilepsy since being a baby. Seizures, they are exhausting but not actually dangerous). The worst possible side effect seems to be Immune thrombocytopenic purpura (ITP), which can result from contracting the wild measles virus as well. So giving the vaccine actually doesn't increase the risk of contracting this illness, but it protects against at least a severe illness and at best a painful death. >Take your N-th booster. What has that to do with anything? You get one booster for measles at the most. Don't tell me that you are one of those people who can't keep their vaccine-scepticisms separate!

legitster 2y ago

> Measles were 95%+ reduced BEFORE the first measles vaccine even came into existance. Explain that? Before international travel was a common thing, it was pretty easy to isolate diseases through the use of lazarettos. If we wanted to treat disease like back in the "good old days", we could forcibly quarantine anyone who got off of a plane for a few days.

watwut 2y ago
You cant really do that with measles. It is super contagious before symptoms shows up. It is just that if you get it once, you are basically vaccinated for life. There were regular epidemics of measles and that was that.

tfourb 2y ago

Measeles incidence in the years prior to the introduction of the vaccine was not abnormally low. No idea where you got that "95%" number from but it's obviously a lie. Stop providing false information, when you can google the actual facts within seconds. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_vaccine#/media/File:Measles_US_1938-2019.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_vaccine#/media/File:Me... Once the vaccine was introduced, cases fell off a cliff. And yes, RFK is crazy.

NotGMan 2y ago
You are misleading everyone: the plot you have is of measles CASES, NOT MORTALITY. The measles mortality reduced by 95% BEFORE vaccination. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Measles_cases_graph.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Measles_...
- tfourb 2y ago
  >Measles were 95%+ reduced That were your words. Not "Measles mortality was reduced". And you didn't provide a source. So clutch your pearls elsewhere and be clearer about what you mean next time. Yes, mortality was drastically reduced due to a number of factors. But this has very little to do with the question, if children should get vaccinated against measles today. Vaccination is not (always) about the individual that is vaccinated. It is about herd immunity that saves the lives and health of even the people who can't be or aren't vaccinated. The newborn. The immuni-compromized. The freak incident where an immunization doesn't prove effective. etc. It's important for outbreaks to not accelerate rapidly, straining local health systems. If JFK jr thinks that "good nutrition" is in some way a replacement for a comprehensive vaccination campaign and herd immunity, he is nuts and should by kept away from any role in government with a ten foot pole. People are literally dying of a completely preventable disease right now that was judged to be eradicated in the US even a few years ago and you are babbling about "nutrition". Listen to yourself! It's a solved problem and people like JFK jr are literally killing people by undermining the solution.
  - NotGMan 2y ago
    Tell the "it's a solved problem" to people who are vaccine damaged. You only talk about others but ignore the all the people who got vaccine damage. You are selective in your "protect the innocent". Take your N-th booster. There are no "outbreaks" since sanitiation and nutrition improved, so people who aren't completely immunocompromised won't get any serious side effects from it. Why would any parent be stupid enough to risk his own healthy child so that a few immunicomproised people get to live? Makes no sense, no parent is that stupid. Unless you brainwash them that other's children are more important that his own.
    - tfourb 2y ago
      Not sure if you got measles as a child and remember it. I got it and remember it and it's an awful illness. I didn't need any "brainwashing" to vaccinate my children. Making sure that they don't suffer is enough of a reason. Apart from that: I will of course expose my children to a tiny risk if it can safe the live of another person. And you do it every day as well with your own life and with that of your own children, if you have any. It's called a society. It would be much safer for me not to break for a person crossing the road (another car could tailgate me). A pedestrian would maybe leave a dent in my car, but the risk to my life or that of my passengers is negligible. I still break every single time, because it is simply the right thing to do. You make tons of these tradeoffs every single day. >You only talk about others but ignore the all the people who got vaccine damage. Let's start with the worst form of "damage": death. The CDC's website has a total of one documented case, where the vaccine was linked to a death because of a very rare combination of circumstances. One. Total. After Billions of vaccinations. I'll take those chances. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccine-safety/vaccines/mmr.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccine-safety/vaccines/mmr.html Other possible side effects are either a non issue, or completely acceptable (higher risk of seizures in the weeks after vaccination – one of my children has epilepsy since being a baby. Seizures, they are exhausting but not actually dangerous). The worst possible side effect seems to be Immune thrombocytopenic purpura (ITP), which can result from contracting the wild measles virus as well. So giving the vaccine actually doesn't increase the risk of contracting this illness, but it protects against at least a severe illness and at best a painful death. >Take your N-th booster. What has that to do with anything? You get one booster for measles at the most. Don't tell me that you are one of those people who can't keep their vaccine-scepticisms separate!