4 ms·

Kennedy and influencers bash seed oils, baffling nutrition scientists

27 points by XzetaU8 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
Note that we’ve been cooking with sesame oil for millennia [1]. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2096242824000435 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S209624282...
- delichon 2y ago
  Seed oil critics I've heard uniformly acknowledge that. Then they say the dose makes the poison and show a chart like this one: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fid8d8n0v5d071.jpg&rdt=63167 https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fi... Then they say something like, correlation is not causation but this one is so well fitted with the rise of metabolic disease that it's at least suspicious. I've eliminated vegetable oils from my diet for the last four years, and while that is correlated with metabolic improvements, it's only one major food type I've removed. IMHO the first or second most important effect of removing seed oils from the diet is that it removes other long term deleterious ingredients by association, like flours and sugars. If you haven't tried shopping for seed oil free foods you may be shocked at how much of the grocery store it rules out. Along with the majority of restaurant meals.
  - legitster 2y ago
    There's a lot of problems with this. Starting with the fact that seed oils were not a part of the US diet in the 1800s, but that didn't mean they weren't popular elsewhere. > this one is so well fitted with the rise of metabolic disease Is it though? The problem is that metabolic disease also increases with life expectancy. People are living longer and not dying at child birth - that inherently means we collect diseases with more frequency. And the idea that there were no metabolic diseases at the turn of the century is laughable. Part of the reason sanatoriums were so prevalent and and diet foods were invented were because of the extreme amount of ailments people suffered from their food.
JohnTHaller 2y ago
"Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the new health secretary, has said Americans are being “unknowingly poisoned” by seed oils and has called for fast-food restaurants to return to using beef tallow, or rendered animal fat, in their fryers instead." The anti-science bent of the man knows no bounds. He also recommended cod liver oil and a well balanced diet to prevent measles.
- johntitorjr 2y ago
  To be fair, fish oil and a good diet can help your immune system fight off measles. Prevent is a stretch. I'm 100% on-board with beef tallow french fries, but not for health reasons.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > fish oil and a good diet can help your immune system fight off measles The folks not vaccinating their kids aren’t eating fish oil or a good diet.
- NotGMan 2y ago
  Measles were 95%+ reduced BEFORE the first measles vaccine even came into existance. Explain that? The common hyptothesis is that it was sanitation and/or diet improvements. So is RFK really crazy or is everyone else crazy?
  - legitster 2y ago
    > Measles were 95%+ reduced BEFORE the first measles vaccine even came into existance. Explain that? Before international travel was a common thing, it was pretty easy to isolate diseases through the use of lazarettos. If we wanted to treat disease like back in the "good old days", we could forcibly quarantine anyone who got off of a plane for a few days.
    - watwut 2y ago
      You cant really do that with measles. It is super contagious before symptoms shows up. It is just that if you get it once, you are basically vaccinated for life. There were regular epidemics of measles and that was that.
legitster 2y ago
It is crazy how the "seed oil" term popped out of nowhere overnight, and not based on any sort of scientific or research revelation. On one hand, I don't use many seed oils at home. On the other hand, it seems like all this effort goes into singling out ingredients solely because they are cheap and available. And guess what, it probably doesn't matter what the ingredients are if they are going to go into cheap processed foods.
- bediger4000 2y ago
  Popped out on f nowhere? Do you suppose that some... campaign contributions... had something to do with this?
  - Jtsummers 2y ago
    Possibly, but I'm pretty sure RFK Jr has been opposed to seed oils for a while. Where it came from, no clue but it's not out of nowhere. He's been pushing it at least since his presidential campaign and probably earlier.
  - legitster 2y ago
    Specifically December 2021. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=seed%20oils%20bad&date=all&geo=US https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=seed%20oils%20bad... Although I remember seeing a tweet or article before where someone actually predicted it coming. The tweet was just like "A public controversy about seed oils is coming and it's going to be weird." For the life of me I cannot remember where or who the prediction came from, but I really want to know what that guy knew.
- jfengel 2y ago
  It's not out of nowhere, exactly. It received some notoriety around 2006, when they were mentioned in "The Omnivore's Dilemma". He was particularly noting the differences between omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, and how corn products (including corn oil) were a huge fraction of the American diet. But the idea that they're poison... that's been a crank issue for a while. Nobody else heard of it until we put a crank in charge.
xnx 2y ago
What's the over/under for how long it takes before RFK starts espousing testicular tanning?
VOIPThrowaway 2y ago
Some seed oils are pressed under high heat and use hexane as a solvent like Canola/R@pe-seed. While other seed oils are just crushed and filtered seeds we've used for millennia like sesame It's the former that RFK is looking into.
GregDavidson 2y ago
Different oils vary a lot in how inflammatory they are. In addition, heating during extraction and/or aging or storage conditions can lead to cross linking which makes oils very bad for health. With the exception of olive oil's virgin labeling, I'm not aware of any easy way to navigate this health minefield.

27 points by XzetaU8 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Note that we’ve been cooking with sesame oil for millennia [1]. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2096242824000435 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S209624282...

delichon 2y ago
Seed oil critics I've heard uniformly acknowledge that. Then they say the dose makes the poison and show a chart like this one: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fid8d8n0v5d071.jpg&rdt=63167 https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fi... Then they say something like, correlation is not causation but this one is so well fitted with the rise of metabolic disease that it's at least suspicious. I've eliminated vegetable oils from my diet for the last four years, and while that is correlated with metabolic improvements, it's only one major food type I've removed. IMHO the first or second most important effect of removing seed oils from the diet is that it removes other long term deleterious ingredients by association, like flours and sugars. If you haven't tried shopping for seed oil free foods you may be shocked at how much of the grocery store it rules out. Along with the majority of restaurant meals.
- legitster 2y ago
  There's a lot of problems with this. Starting with the fact that seed oils were not a part of the US diet in the 1800s, but that didn't mean they weren't popular elsewhere. > this one is so well fitted with the rise of metabolic disease Is it though? The problem is that metabolic disease also increases with life expectancy. People are living longer and not dying at child birth - that inherently means we collect diseases with more frequency. And the idea that there were no metabolic diseases at the turn of the century is laughable. Part of the reason sanatoriums were so prevalent and and diet foods were invented were because of the extreme amount of ailments people suffered from their food.

JohnTHaller 2y ago

"Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the new health secretary, has said Americans are being “unknowingly poisoned” by seed oils and has called for fast-food restaurants to return to using beef tallow, or rendered animal fat, in their fryers instead." The anti-science bent of the man knows no bounds. He also recommended cod liver oil and a well balanced diet to prevent measles.

johntitorjr 2y ago
To be fair, fish oil and a good diet can help your immune system fight off measles. Prevent is a stretch. I'm 100% on-board with beef tallow french fries, but not for health reasons.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > fish oil and a good diet can help your immune system fight off measles The folks not vaccinating their kids aren’t eating fish oil or a good diet.
NotGMan 2y ago
Measles were 95%+ reduced BEFORE the first measles vaccine even came into existance. Explain that? The common hyptothesis is that it was sanitation and/or diet improvements. So is RFK really crazy or is everyone else crazy?
- legitster 2y ago
  > Measles were 95%+ reduced BEFORE the first measles vaccine even came into existance. Explain that? Before international travel was a common thing, it was pretty easy to isolate diseases through the use of lazarettos. If we wanted to treat disease like back in the "good old days", we could forcibly quarantine anyone who got off of a plane for a few days.
  - watwut 2y ago
    You cant really do that with measles. It is super contagious before symptoms shows up. It is just that if you get it once, you are basically vaccinated for life. There were regular epidemics of measles and that was that.

legitster 2y ago

It is crazy how the "seed oil" term popped out of nowhere overnight, and not based on any sort of scientific or research revelation. On one hand, I don't use many seed oils at home. On the other hand, it seems like all this effort goes into singling out ingredients solely because they are cheap and available. And guess what, it probably doesn't matter what the ingredients are if they are going to go into cheap processed foods.

bediger4000 2y ago
Popped out on f nowhere? Do you suppose that some... campaign contributions... had something to do with this?
- Jtsummers 2y ago
  Possibly, but I'm pretty sure RFK Jr has been opposed to seed oils for a while. Where it came from, no clue but it's not out of nowhere. He's been pushing it at least since his presidential campaign and probably earlier.
- legitster 2y ago
  Specifically December 2021. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=seed%20oils%20bad&date=all&geo=US https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=seed%20oils%20bad... Although I remember seeing a tweet or article before where someone actually predicted it coming. The tweet was just like "A public controversy about seed oils is coming and it's going to be weird." For the life of me I cannot remember where or who the prediction came from, but I really want to know what that guy knew.
jfengel 2y ago
It's not out of nowhere, exactly. It received some notoriety around 2006, when they were mentioned in "The Omnivore's Dilemma". He was particularly noting the differences between omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, and how corn products (including corn oil) were a huge fraction of the American diet. But the idea that they're poison... that's been a crank issue for a while. Nobody else heard of it until we put a crank in charge.

xnx 2y ago

What's the over/under for how long it takes before RFK starts espousing testicular tanning?

VOIPThrowaway 2y ago

Some seed oils are pressed under high heat and use hexane as a solvent like Canola/R@pe-seed. While other seed oils are just crushed and filtered seeds we've used for millennia like sesame It's the former that RFK is looking into.

GregDavidson 2y ago

Different oils vary a lot in how inflammatory they are. In addition, heating during extraction and/or aging or storage conditions can lead to cross linking which makes oils very bad for health. With the exception of olive oil's virgin labeling, I'm not aware of any easy way to navigate this health minefield.