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Am I missing something here? Entirely possible and likely. When I go to pornhub I have to click a button that days I’m 18. Some other sites I’ve seen actually m

Am I missing something here? Entirely possible and likely. When I go to pornhub I have to click a button that days I’m 18. Some other sites I’ve seen actually make me enter a birthdate. Slightly more annoying but I always make one up. Is this what people are upset about? I get actual age verification with an account required or checking my ID is more invasive..but I guess I’ve not experienced this as an actual problem yet.

mandevil 2y ago
This is about a Texas Law that went before the Supreme Court recently. Texas' law, H.B. 1181, requires people visiting porn websites to prove their age by either uploading government-issued identification or a "commercially reasonable method" such as bank information. More than a dozen other states have passed similar bills, though they are all on hold pending what the Supreme Court decides.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
  There's just too much money to be made selling porn to children.
  - 9283409232 2y ago
    No, there isn't. Almost all porn that is accessible to children is on freely available social media like instagram and twitter. Not on Pornhub.
    - twiclo 2y ago
      Are you saying kids don't go to pornhub?
      - 9283409232 2y ago
        No I'm not.
    - dragonwriter 2y ago
      Twitter and Instagram, then, are not businesses that make money selling content to viewers in an indirect manner where the viewer provides eyeballs to an advertiser who then provides money to the platform, right?
  - LorenPechtel 2y ago
    Children don't exactly have a lot of money, especially in a form they can spend online. Porn companies want customers who can actually afford to buy their products!
RDaneel0livaw 2y ago
I live in a state where they have banned all porn sites entirely. If I try to go to pornhub there's a statement from the company saying I can't access it at all. Period. It's beyond absurd into the realm of comedy levels of incompetence from the gov.
ryandvm 2y ago
Certain US states are requiring the porn sites actually do rigorous age verification via scanned documents. I believe PornHub just opted to stay out of those states entirely hoping that their "reverse boycott" would cause enough of a backlash to get the laws changed. I'm not sure it's working. That said, as a parent to teenagers, I don't know that I believe that age verification is such a terrible idea. The reality is that there's a lot of fucked up porn out there and blocking it effectively across all networks and every device is non-trivial. I understand this is a minority viewpoint on HN. Of course I have absolutely no interest in uploading scans of my drivers license to porn sites so I don't know what the right answer is. I'm sure there's some cryptographic scheme whereby a 3rd party could verify my identity without knowing for what purpose and then the porn sites could validate that verification without disclosing who or what I'm doing. I dunno.
- jay-barronville 2y ago
  > That said, as a parent to teenagers, I don't know that I believe that age verification is such a terrible idea. The reality is that there's a lot of fucked up porn out there and blocking it effectively across all networks and every device is non-trivial. I understand this is a minority viewpoint on HN. I agree with you. I’m very pro-privacy/anti-surveillance and pro-freedom, so I’m entirely against the invasive ID-based systems, but the problem you highlight is pretty real and has to be addressed somehow, and I’m just not sure what the solution is. As a parent of very young children, I’d hope that we’ve already figured this out by the time my children are teenagers. Also, I doubt your viewpoint is actually a minority viewpoint here—it’s more likely those with your viewpoint just won’t post it here.
  - Analemma_ 2y ago
    > I agree with you. I’m very pro-privacy/anti-surveillance and pro-freedom, so I’m entirely against the invasive ID-based systems, but the problem you highlight is pretty real and has to be addressed somehow, and I’m just not sure what the solution is. The solution is client-side filtering/blocking software on the machines you own. And if your response is "but that's hard", that should increase your confidence that server-side filtering and verification are unacceptable. If even tech-savvy people can't get verification working on a local device-- which has the full, correct context who is using it and what should be blocked-- then certainly it's not going to get any better by mandating a solution at scale on the public Internet, where there is much less context about the individual user, credentials can be mocked, proxies can be used, and so on.
evil-olive 2y ago
your confusion is understandable, because "age verification" can mean anything from "check the box that says you're 18" to "upload a picture of the front and back of your driver's license". > When I go to pornhub I have to click a button that days I’m 18. if you were in Texas, it'd be not reachable at all [0]. this is due to a bill [1] that would have required Pornhub to use the more intrusive age-verification options. it also allows for significant fines for non-compliance. if a 16 year old kid used their 19 year old brother's ID to get through the verification, Pornhub could potentially be liable for up to $250k. and the broadest reading of that bill would mean that quarter-million fine applies every time a minor bypassed the age-verification check. 0: https://www.texastribune.org/2024/03/14/texas-pornhub-5th-circuit-age-verification-paxton/ https://www.texastribune.org/2024/03/14/texas-pornhub-5th-ci... 1: https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/88R/billtext/html/HB01181F.htm https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/88R/billtext/html/HB01181F...
- ndriscoll 2y ago
  That fine applies if they don't have a system at all, not for scenarios like you posted.
  - genewitch 2y ago
    And who decides if the solution is, you know, appropriate and all that's required and not just half-assing it? Is it something where they would have to get fined $250,000 and then go fight it in court?
  - evil-olive 2y ago
    > That fine applies if they don't have a system at all no, that's not accurate. quoting from the bill: > A civil penalty imposed under this section for a violation of Section 129B.002 or 129B.003 may be in an amount equal to not more than the total, if applicable, of: > (1) $10,000 per day that the entity operates an Internet website in violation of the age verification requirements of this chapter; > (2) $10,000 per instance when the entity retains identifying information in violation of Section 129B.002(b); and > (3) if, because of the entity's violation of the age verification requirements of this chapter, one or more minors accesses sexual material harmful to minors, an additional amount of not more than $250,000. if they don't have a system for age verification, the possible fine is $10k per day. run a website for a year, and then the Texas AG gets around to filing a suit against you? that's a possible 3.65 million fine. the possible $250k is on top of that, if minors access porn on such a website. crucially, the law says the age-verification system used must be "reasonable" which gives prosecutors a significant amount of leeway. does your porn site use Honest Achmed's Age Verification Service? if that is easy to bypass, there's nothing stopping them from arguing in court that you may have implemented age-verification, but you didn't comply with the law because you didn't use a reasonable verification service.
weaksauce 2y ago
to buy vape products online in california you have to submit your id to a third party id verification service. that's incredibly intrusive and could be where these laws go.
genewitch 2y ago
Find a VPN with an exit in Texas, Louisiana, or Utah, to name three off the top of my head. Louisiana, AFAIK Does not require age verification, but all of our traffic goes to Dallas, so we get lumped in with Texas.

mandevil 2y ago

This is about a Texas Law that went before the Supreme Court recently. Texas' law, H.B. 1181, requires people visiting porn websites to prove their age by either uploading government-issued identification or a "commercially reasonable method" such as bank information. More than a dozen other states have passed similar bills, though they are all on hold pending what the Supreme Court decides.

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
There's just too much money to be made selling porn to children.
- 9283409232 2y ago
  No, there isn't. Almost all porn that is accessible to children is on freely available social media like instagram and twitter. Not on Pornhub.
  - twiclo 2y ago
    Are you saying kids don't go to pornhub?
    - 9283409232 2y ago
      No I'm not.
  - dragonwriter 2y ago
    Twitter and Instagram, then, are not businesses that make money selling content to viewers in an indirect manner where the viewer provides eyeballs to an advertiser who then provides money to the platform, right?
- LorenPechtel 2y ago
  Children don't exactly have a lot of money, especially in a form they can spend online. Porn companies want customers who can actually afford to buy their products!

RDaneel0livaw 2y ago

I live in a state where they have banned all porn sites entirely. If I try to go to pornhub there's a statement from the company saying I can't access it at all. Period. It's beyond absurd into the realm of comedy levels of incompetence from the gov.

ryandvm 2y ago

Certain US states are requiring the porn sites actually do rigorous age verification via scanned documents. I believe PornHub just opted to stay out of those states entirely hoping that their "reverse boycott" would cause enough of a backlash to get the laws changed. I'm not sure it's working. That said, as a parent to teenagers, I don't know that I believe that age verification is such a terrible idea. The reality is that there's a lot of fucked up porn out there and blocking it effectively across all networks and every device is non-trivial. I understand this is a minority viewpoint on HN. Of course I have absolutely no interest in uploading scans of my drivers license to porn sites so I don't know what the right answer is. I'm sure there's some cryptographic scheme whereby a 3rd party could verify my identity without knowing for what purpose and then the porn sites could validate that verification without disclosing who or what I'm doing. I dunno.

jay-barronville 2y ago
> That said, as a parent to teenagers, I don't know that I believe that age verification is such a terrible idea. The reality is that there's a lot of fucked up porn out there and blocking it effectively across all networks and every device is non-trivial. I understand this is a minority viewpoint on HN. I agree with you. I’m very pro-privacy/anti-surveillance and pro-freedom, so I’m entirely against the invasive ID-based systems, but the problem you highlight is pretty real and has to be addressed somehow, and I’m just not sure what the solution is. As a parent of very young children, I’d hope that we’ve already figured this out by the time my children are teenagers. Also, I doubt your viewpoint is actually a minority viewpoint here—it’s more likely those with your viewpoint just won’t post it here.
- Analemma_ 2y ago
  > I agree with you. I’m very pro-privacy/anti-surveillance and pro-freedom, so I’m entirely against the invasive ID-based systems, but the problem you highlight is pretty real and has to be addressed somehow, and I’m just not sure what the solution is. The solution is client-side filtering/blocking software on the machines you own. And if your response is "but that's hard", that should increase your confidence that server-side filtering and verification are unacceptable. If even tech-savvy people can't get verification working on a local device-- which has the full, correct context who is using it and what should be blocked-- then certainly it's not going to get any better by mandating a solution at scale on the public Internet, where there is much less context about the individual user, credentials can be mocked, proxies can be used, and so on.

evil-olive 2y ago

your confusion is understandable, because "age verification" can mean anything from "check the box that says you're 18" to "upload a picture of the front and back of your driver's license". > When I go to pornhub I have to click a button that days I’m 18. if you were in Texas, it'd be not reachable at all [0]. this is due to a bill [1] that would have required Pornhub to use the more intrusive age-verification options. it also allows for significant fines for non-compliance. if a 16 year old kid used their 19 year old brother's ID to get through the verification, Pornhub could potentially be liable for up to $250k. and the broadest reading of that bill would mean that quarter-million fine applies every time a minor bypassed the age-verification check. 0: https://www.texastribune.org/2024/03/14/texas-pornhub-5th-circuit-age-verification-paxton/ https://www.texastribune.org/2024/03/14/texas-pornhub-5th-ci... 1: https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/88R/billtext/html/HB01181F.htm https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/88R/billtext/html/HB01181F...

ndriscoll 2y ago
That fine applies if they don't have a system at all, not for scenarios like you posted.
- genewitch 2y ago
  And who decides if the solution is, you know, appropriate and all that's required and not just half-assing it? Is it something where they would have to get fined $250,000 and then go fight it in court?
- evil-olive 2y ago
  > That fine applies if they don't have a system at all no, that's not accurate. quoting from the bill: > A civil penalty imposed under this section for a violation of Section 129B.002 or 129B.003 may be in an amount equal to not more than the total, if applicable, of: > (1) $10,000 per day that the entity operates an Internet website in violation of the age verification requirements of this chapter; > (2) $10,000 per instance when the entity retains identifying information in violation of Section 129B.002(b); and > (3) if, because of the entity's violation of the age verification requirements of this chapter, one or more minors accesses sexual material harmful to minors, an additional amount of not more than $250,000. if they don't have a system for age verification, the possible fine is $10k per day. run a website for a year, and then the Texas AG gets around to filing a suit against you? that's a possible 3.65 million fine. the possible $250k is on top of that, if minors access porn on such a website. crucially, the law says the age-verification system used must be "reasonable" which gives prosecutors a significant amount of leeway. does your porn site use Honest Achmed's Age Verification Service? if that is easy to bypass, there's nothing stopping them from arguing in court that you may have implemented age-verification, but you didn't comply with the law because you didn't use a reasonable verification service.

weaksauce 2y ago

to buy vape products online in california you have to submit your id to a third party id verification service. that's incredibly intrusive and could be where these laws go.

genewitch 2y ago

Find a VPN with an exit in Texas, Louisiana, or Utah, to name three off the top of my head. Louisiana, AFAIK Does not require age verification, but all of our traffic goes to Dallas, so we get lumped in with Texas.