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> This is such a blatantly big-L Liberal political position, that I have to laugh, even as a liberal myself. Pretending this is philosophy rather than policy se

> This is such a blatantly big-L Liberal political position, that I have to laugh, even as a liberal myself. Pretending this is philosophy rather than policy seems a bit silly. Opinions about the proper structure and role of government have been part of philosophy since at least Plato's "Republic."

munchler 2y ago
Sure, but my point is that guaranteeing a right to health care or education makes little philosophical sense. It’s childish to say that a) these things are good, and b) we want the government to do good things, so therefore c) everyone has a right to get good things from the government.
- MadcapJake 2y ago
  You're making it sound like a "right" is something you "get". Political philosophy typically defines a "right" as something that you have before the social contract and a good government provides assurances that your rights are supplied within their contract with the people. To address your ordered list, steps A and B are completely wrong, these things aren't "good" nor do we "want" them. They are innate qualities of humans and thus governments must respect and uphold them.
  - munchler 2y ago
    > You're making it sound like a "right" is something you "get". No, she is making it sound that way, not me. One of Nussbaum’s tenets is “It is the task of governments to provide citizens with capabilities to flourish.” She also wants to “establish the capabilities as rights to which citizens, in all nations, are entitled.” One of these capabilities/rights is “Bodily health (being able to have good health, including reproductive health, and adequate nourishment and shelter).” Some of the others are even more unrealistic, such as the right to a “normal human lifespan”. I don’t know how to interpret that other than as the right to get stuff from the government.
    - sprucevoid 2y ago
      You say "childish" and "unrealistic" but such legal rights already exists. For example children have a right to education and the government has to see to it, in one way or other, that the child gets education (which could take the shape of public schools or funding, regulation and overseeing privately owned schools or some other arrangement). Similarly for other legal rights. a right in that sense means an especially strong claim that guides policy and is specified and updated through laws and regulations.

munchler 2y ago

Sure, but my point is that guaranteeing a right to health care or education makes little philosophical sense. It’s childish to say that a) these things are good, and b) we want the government to do good things, so therefore c) everyone has a right to get good things from the government.

MadcapJake 2y ago
You're making it sound like a "right" is something you "get". Political philosophy typically defines a "right" as something that you have before the social contract and a good government provides assurances that your rights are supplied within their contract with the people. To address your ordered list, steps A and B are completely wrong, these things aren't "good" nor do we "want" them. They are innate qualities of humans and thus governments must respect and uphold them.
- munchler 2y ago
  > You're making it sound like a "right" is something you "get". No, she is making it sound that way, not me. One of Nussbaum’s tenets is “It is the task of governments to provide citizens with capabilities to flourish.” She also wants to “establish the capabilities as rights to which citizens, in all nations, are entitled.” One of these capabilities/rights is “Bodily health (being able to have good health, including reproductive health, and adequate nourishment and shelter).” Some of the others are even more unrealistic, such as the right to a “normal human lifespan”. I don’t know how to interpret that other than as the right to get stuff from the government.
  - sprucevoid 2y ago
    You say "childish" and "unrealistic" but such legal rights already exists. For example children have a right to education and the government has to see to it, in one way or other, that the child gets education (which could take the shape of public schools or funding, regulation and overseeing privately owned schools or some other arrangement). Similarly for other legal rights. a right in that sense means an especially strong claim that guides policy and is specified and updated through laws and regulations.